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Author	Topic: What Wrath players need to know to not suck at Cata! [Locked]
Auenwing Title: straightface Posts: 589 Registered: 2002-12-27 23:23:12	Date Posted: 1/1/00 12:03am Subject: What Wrath players need to know to not suck at Cata!
	Syrus, the key there is balance. Sounds like you did everything you could as a tank (short of talking with him when he first started running ahead.) 1)Being group-friendly does not mean being a doormat. Or being a charity. (No implied anything here, just trying to set a marker for a "healthy boundary".) 2)Balancing one person's actions against the needs of the group has to be factored in. 3)The other key is the one person's willingness to be part of the group, to help it, not hurt it. Sounds like this guy's pulls weren't necessarily going to wipe the group (you were keeping up, but it may have been straining the healer), but definitely wasn't adding to it other than his DPS. And he appeared to be self-focused. And inflexible. It's a judgement call at that point. Do you grit your teeth and keep going? Do you think he could potentially overload the healer or tank and wipe the group? Do you continue to attempt to talk with him in sends while still tanking (so as not to slow the group down), or will doing that put the group at a disadvantage? Do you think, after the initial interaction with him, that he is (a) griefing (b) incompetent (c) unsure and defensive (d) open to dialogue (e) temporarily willing to adjust for the group's needs? Those are just a few (not all) options depending on the group's desired speed/temperament for going through the instance. You can use an easy template and just vote to kick if the player is OBVIOUSLY and BLATANTLY putting the group at risk. You can take time to communicate with a "bad player" in a constructive manner, and see if it temporarily helps the group. Or you have to use your judgement about whether you actually can help, IF the player is open to it and willing to modify their behavior for group success. Wow, that sounds very carebear psycho-babble preachy. Go back to statements about the key is balance: healthy boundary, balancing the group's need, and the willingness of the player to momentarily adapt. Yeah, that's a judgement call. And like life, in any given situation, you just do the best you can. -----signature----- There are those who play tank classes, and those that tank. The weapon is only as good as the person wielding it. Free advice is often worth what you pay for it: nothing.
Broken_Kayfabe Posts: 248 Registered: 2002-2-16 01:05:01	Date Posted: 1/1/00 12:03am Subject: What Wrath players need to know to not suck at Cata!
	This thread needs more ...doh, pwned by the hotlinking... So it needs even MOAR -----signature----- Thanks, but it's been fun Five more minutes then I'm done! I've been saying that to myself since ...yesterday. - from "Has anybody seen my corpse". Man Everquest rocked back in the day...
GutterSludge Posts: 1,034 Registered: 2005-11-6 10:54:55	Date Posted: 1/1/00 12:03am Subject: What Wrath players need to know to not suck at Cata!
	Ardenwolfe posted: You're not very good at this. If you want to contradict a point, you need to make sure you're not talking out your rear. GutterSludge posted: Edit: the ONLY thing you are "better" at than anyone on this board, appears to be blowing sugar up Korrigan's arse...good job! You win at that!! This is an insult. A personal, and implied, insult. An incorrect one, but that's another topic for another thread. Read the post immediately prior to when I said that. That was not an insult. It was a response to an attempted insult, spewed by you. BTW I don't have to connect the dots, since you admittedly are so apt at reading between the lines.. Kepp trying though, in a year or two you might be able to hang with me...but I seriously doubt it. -----signature----- Guttersludge People just can't handle the truth. NeMeFieD said:"ea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.." njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
GutterSludge Posts: 1,034 Registered: 2005-11-6 10:54:55	Date Posted: 1/1/00 12:03am Subject: What Wrath players need to know to not suck at Cata!
	--Syrus-- posted: Just a little story to add to the thread here, I have not been following these recent arguments, but earlier we mentioned what we expect out of our PuG's and so on and it was suggested rather then treat bad players poorly or kick them from our groups to just give them tips here and there to help make them better players. It was also pointed out to us that some players just don't care to be better players at all. I mentioned as well that even the smallest "tip" given to most players results in belligerent rudeness. Here is a prime example. I was tanking Wailing Caverns with my new pally. I had a rogue in the group who obviously did not understand the concept of a tank in a group, after each pull he would just run forward into the next group and start attacking. For the most part I could keep up with him, so I just threw my avengers shield in there as he was running up each time and made sure to take aggro from him. At this point I had decided not to bother saying anything, what he was doing was making the healers job a little harder, but I didn't think it would result in a wipe so I left it alone. At one point the rogue ran off in the opposite direction not paying attention to where the group was headed and started attacking his own mob. Well because the rest of the group followed me including the healer he died. At this point I felt bad for the guy so I decided to take the advice given to me here and give this guy a friendly tip. I said "Hey man, it would make it easier on you if you just let me tank the mobs." He responded "Meaning?" At this point I gave him the benefit of the doubt and actually thought he didn't know what I meant by me tanking. "Let me take all the damage, that's my job, just attack the mobs that I'm attacking and you won't take any damage." "ou don't do shit. Shut up. Just go." See what I mean? These are the types we are talking about. Why group with people if you don't care to be part of a team at all? His play style didn't change at all, I had to make sure and keep up with him and continue to pull mobs off of him that he would go after on his own. At the point in Wailing Caverns where you have to jump that small small little gap.. he fell down took him a good 5 minutes to find his way back to the group. I'm trying to take the advice of some of the people on this forum and not boot these players lest I be labeled "elistest" but I really don't think these players will learn either way. Syrus, seriously... how many pugs total, before you get one person like this? 10? 20? 50? 100? Honest answer now..and I fully realize that some days are better than others... -----signature----- Guttersludge People just can't handle the truth. NeMeFieD said:"ea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.." njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
_Warlucky_ Posts: 183 Registered: 2008-7-20 04:40:07	Date Posted: 1/1/00 12:03am Subject: What Wrath players need to know to not suck at Cata!
	steveC91 posted: Arcilite_I posted: siujoey posted: This seems like it might come as a surprise to all of you judging by the responses so far, but..... there are LOTS and LOTS of players that couldn't possibly care less if they are "good". My advice for those people: Unsub, go back to single player games, where easy mode is the only friend needed If you insist on playing a multiplayer game, at least have the courtesy of not queueing or grouping for anything ever Thanks For those of us who play for fun we relish having someone like you in our group and we get worse on purpose But usualy I find some friends just as bad and we have fun wiping a lot There should be an achievement for wiping a lot on a boss. That way it would be ok to waste every-bodies time because you are pursuing the game and it would be the rest of the group not holding up their end by doing badly.
Grimlik Posts: 35 Registered: 2004-3-9 08:36:13	Date Posted: 1/1/00 12:03am Subject: What Wrath players need to know to not suck at Cata!
	This post could have been made back in WoW vanilla as well. I expect there will be some adjustments needing to be made. Generally though my experience with the DF has been positive. Of the last 50 or so runs I have made only 2 have been bad. I think it will be very interesting to see how the current player base handles the back to old school system. -----signature----- Grimlik Amberdrake Current game: Real Life Patch 2.0 Sheep Slayer Waiting for something new and inventive and fun
Cawlin Posts: 1,759 Registered: 2005-2-22 07:58:42	Date Posted: 1/1/00 12:03am Subject: What Wrath players need to know to not suck at Cata!
	GutterSludge posted: Syrus, seriously... how many pugs total, before you get one person like this? 10? 20? 50? 100? Honest answer now..and I fully realize that some days are better than others... I gotta back up Syrus here on this Gutter. The "extreme" nature of his experience is 1 group in 5 in my experience (and I am being honest here, seriously). I will see a worse experience in maybe 1 in 10, and less extreme experiences than his in about every third LFD run. Primarily I've been doing LFD with either of my 3 tanks, or either of my priests, but also with a couple hunters. Also in the past several months I've leveled probably a half dozen or more characters through the LFD where the "leveling" experiences like Syrus are pretty much every other group, if not 2 out of 3. -----signature----- If ignorance were painful, half the posters here would be on morphine drips. Everyone playing WoW knows everything about playing two classes: 1) their own and 2) Hunters
--Syrus-- Posts: 536 Registered: 2003-12-2 15:51:47	Date Posted: 1/1/00 12:03am Subject: What Wrath players need to know to not suck at Cata!
	The player was a bit worse then normal, his attitude though wasn't. As stated above it wouldn't be a stretch to say 1 and 5. It may be less common for you because you just suck it up and don't say anything to these people. All the power to ya. In this case I wasn't even saying anything to scold the guy, but I knew for sure the next PuG he is in it going to tear him a new one so I thought I would take a stab at it. I ran two BFD's last night, in both instances I had healers who were more focused on DPS then they were on healing me. They would wait until I was at around 30% health to even through a renew or bubble. I was mostly in charge of healing myself through holy power and only if I couldn't keep up that way would I start seeing heals. I died on the murloc boss because of this because he DPS's like a mofo. I didn't even bother saying anything to these healers but If I did I am 90% sure what kind of response I'd get. -----signature----- Common Sense is a myth.. Its Hub. 10 week ban for anybody who disagrees. -Mithan-
Grimlik Posts: 35 Registered: 2004-3-9 08:36:13	Date Posted: 1/1/00 12:03am Subject: What Wrath players need to know to not suck at Cata!
	--Syrus-- posted: I didn't even bother saying anything to these healers but If I did I am 90% sure what kind of response I'd get. Speaks volumes as to the general playerbase that inhabits WoW. I would feel bad as a healer that you died to a boss mob. There is really almost no excuse for this if you are unmolested as the healer. Expecting a negative reply from a healer in this scenario is just sad. -----signature----- Grimlik Amberdrake Current game: Real Life Patch 2.0 Sheep Slayer Waiting for something new and inventive and fun
Ardenwolfe Title: All Knowing Grammar Police Posts: 499 Registered: 2002-12-11 14:47:24	Date Posted: 1/1/00 12:03am Subject: What Wrath players need to know to not suck at Cata!
	GutterSludge posted: Read the post immediately prior to when I said that. That was not an insult. It was a response to an attempted insult, spewed by you. BTW I don't have to connect the dots, since you admittedly are so apt at reading between the lines.. Kepp trying though, in a year or two you might be able to hang with me...but I seriously doubt it. You don't think before you respond to anything, do you? Because almost everything you say lacks common sense and attempts to disguise your lack thereof. Hang with you? This is like watching a one-legged man in a butt-kicking contest. Let me tell you something: If I insult you, you'll know. You'll be so damn sure you won't even have to ask the question. In order to 'hang with you', I'd have to step down to the basement. I'll freely admit, I know I make more than a few posters uncomfortable, perhaps even annoy them, but I'll guess not one of them can say you articulate a point or discussion better than me. You can't counterpoint in a debate. You can't remove your ego from the discussion. And, hell, you can't even pretend to try. So, ask yourself, was it worth this embarrassment to be called out like this? By the way, that's rhetorical. Look it up. -----signature----- Sanctimonious know-it-all.
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