I skipped WotLK and the above statement is the major difference I noticed in the game upon my return. My buddy and I are facerolling 5 man (non instance) bosses with relative ease, decked out primarily in old BC badge gear and WotLK quest blues. Seriously easymode. I remember my old casual guild (which had some decent "serious" players) busting our humps in early BC to clear Karazhan, now one Shaman and a Rogue can blow through 5 man quests. Wowza.....

More assumptions, based on a very skewed point of view.

Disregarded.

 

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This, this, definitely this!!!!

I run into many people that their only experience in 5 man heroics came late in the game when most of the folks are geared at an avg ilvl of 245+. They got carried repeatedly through heroics by folks that were basically farming frosties/jp/rep and got the impression that these heroics just are not that difficult. Even worse, some of them are tanks/healers that never had to run a dungeon with a full group of level appropriate gear so they actually think they are playing correctly when in fact everyone else was so overgeared they brute-force finished the dungeon and went about their way without ever telling these folks their mistakes.

My guild brought in a few new folks last week and we took them on a 10 man ICC alt run. They performed absolutely horribly and were flabbergasted at how hard they found the fights to be. They simply could not imagine how they did so well in 5 man heroics only to get destroyed in 10 man ICC. As we spoke with them, turns out they fell into the category I mentioned above. Late comers to 80, carried through heroics by overgeared folks, and just were not ready for the coordination required in "harder" content. We are working with them and they will get better, but these guys are just typical for the majority out there. I knew they were not ready for primetime just looking at their gem/enchant/reforge choices and their inability to explain them. They are cool folks though and willing to learn so it's all good in the end.

 

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I haven't forgotten, Cawlin. It's actually FUN when you don't outgear the content. Steamrolling 5 mans is very very boring, and is just a means to an end(some extra badge loot) for most in the latter stages of any expansion.

I do however find it ridiculous that "pugs will fail", and all the other "doomsaying" that this thread contains. It is just simply not true, any more than guilds or premade groups failing.

More people than ever utilize dungeons. Exponentially more then ever saw Vanilla content. This is why Korrigan wants to slams pugs. Seeing content is not exclusive to elitist asshats anymore, and it bugs the elite crowd to no end.

 

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If one could possible get through your vitriol, may I ask what point you're attempting to make other than oneupmanship with Korrigan?


What you have is a differing of opinions.


It's not a mortal sin, you know.

 

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You are almost caught up,


You will eventually realize that Korrigan's opinion is the only one that matters, and everyone who might say different is a tool, troll, and cannot possibly know what they are talking about.


Hang in there..it is quite humorous.

 

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You know, everything you just said I could apply to you from your responses to include this one.


If his opinion is so acidic to you, perhaps you would be best served to ignore it.


For example, I asked a simple question and I get a snotty response like, "ou are almost caught up. Hang in there . . . it's quite humorous."


That's not persuasive. In fact, quite the opposite. It's insulting.


Let's say I disagree with Korrigan for the sake of example.


Korrigan, perhaps instead of labeling those players in PuGs, you could take a few under your guild's wing and school them on their various classes. While I'll grant that not all players can be taught, I'm willing to bet that some will shine. In fact, I will bet money some will even become a benefit to your guild and the community if given the chance.


While patience is required, selective patience, I'll also bet no one here is as good with their class today as they were six years prior.


That's the learning curve, and now Catacylsm gives us the chance to rethink our various roles in the game.


Why not give it a chance?


And this ends the example.


Again, you can disagree. But, if you're just going to throw names and insults around, well, you're going to get what you give.

 

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I win this thread.


I do not play WOW, so I am worse than all the people who do. I played for a week, about two years ago. I am not even sure if I could master the login screen at this point, with all the expansions, etc.


However, I never experience the e-rage which causes people to have vindictive superiority complexes and never wish to smash my monitor.


I like MMA and saw the Cataclysm ads during the last UFC fight. I'll be damned if I'd join this community, though. WOW has everything I never liked about DAOC and none of the DAOC.


Wasn't even going to post, except I saw one guy with David Gemmell in his quotes. David Gemmell is one of my favorite authors. The Troy series is an extremely satisfying read. Prop for knowing who he is.

Arden,

You are almost caught up.


Give it time, and you will understand that Korrigan and I are from opposite ends of the spectrum.

Korrigan's world: Only guilds matter... and everyone else is a second class player who should just unsub...Only E-peens, achievements, and armory links matter..(but ONLY if you disagree!!!)


My world, play however you have the most fun, and eff anyone who tells you different.


Hang around the board long enough, and you will see for yourself.

Like I said, you are almost caught up.

It isn't an insult, its just the truth.


PUGs will dominate Cata, and I will think of this thread and giggle.

 

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/wades in


Do you know that I have found something to agree with in almost every post here?


For me, it comes down to flexibility and tolerance. And acceptance.


Yes, my guild plays min/max hardcore. We push things to the limit in instances. We love doing them at level (not overgeared). We have in the past, and will probably continue in the future doing instances with less than a full group/raid. We work together as a team and that's the best part. We screw up, we hone, we refine. We come back and attempt again until we succeed. I LOVE playing this way.


If we end up grouped with someone who is new to the game/class/dungeon and they are willing to learn we will bend over backwards to include them and help them along without (hopefully) acting elite. All of us have been there at some point. Nobody rolled a character starting out as an expert, even if they were in beta.


If I'm in a PuG, I expect the worst and am grateful for the best. It's a mixed bag. I willingly signed up for it. I do my best with my group-of-the-moment, carrying over my min/max abilites and group-teamwork ethic and do the best I can so the group can be successful. Their success is mine. Even temporarily. That holds true for PvP as well. And yes, I have been absolutely irritated at some that act like know-it-alls (when it's obvious nobody is), and those that go AFK (or might as well have) and are "carried through". I chose to sign up for it. I get to deal with it. Sometimes I learn from it. Do I wish it was near-perfect everytime? Hell yes! It's more efficient that way. I'm really happy when it is. I can't expect that from a PuG, though; that's unrealistic, just from a sheer numbers perspective.


I also understand and accept those players that are "casual", that are not elite, that are here for the fun or the journey or just flower-picking. I have had wonderful interactions with them, they have reminded me there are other ways of having fun, and have stopped and grouped with them, when they are genuinely attempting an encounter that requires grouping. Those times are the closest to old-school MMO grouping that I have found in WoW. I think I get more out of those encounters than they do from the little (helping hand) I'm giving.


And I know I will never be an "expert" at anything. There are classes I play better than others. There are players that are both worse and better than me. That is life.


The game promotes elite behavior and allows flower-picking. I can get angry at both ends of the spectrum with people who are not "group-friendly", who are self-focused, self-centered or just plain self-entitled. They fall all across the entire spectrum (from hardcore to casual). This too is life.


I don't have to like it.


Do I wish it was different? Hell, damn, yes!


I am the first to complain about WoW's community. Or lack thereof. Those that don't play the way I would choose.


Blizzard figured out it could make more money with inclusive gameplay.


I have to accept it if I chose to play this game.


I can limit my choices or I can limit my responses. Or both.


And I can always come out here and complain, argue and commiserate.


Just like everybody else.

 

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