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Topic:
Sad players you are. [Locked] |
Boone-Eldar  Title: Infallible
Posts: 273
Registered: 2001-12-28 16:31:37
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
Sad players you are. |
-Mithan- posted:
Edited by Mith on 12/18/10 5:18 PM (UTC)
Blizzard's tuning isn't so much the issue as the player base, however we have to go with the player base as that is who we are playing with in-game. If I get 4 other good people in a group, I don't care how hard the instance is. However, 9 times out of 10, I end up with 1 or 2 poorer players and we can't finish the instance.
However, let us look at the bigger picture for a minute:
People keep playing when they are making meaningful progress. Take that away or inhibit it, and they get bored, which means they cancel. WoW Classic and TBC had a large number of people cancel months after the "newness" of the expansion wore off and one of the big reasons was lack of progression. For TBC, the one path open to them (Heroics) was too much of a waste of time for most, as it was far to tedious to run 2 hour instances in order to get 3 badges for your loot that cost 100+ badges. WotLK kept people playing longer because it had a progression path open to them (Heroic grinding).
Blizzard made a big mistake here and the end result will be nerfs or cancellations in the summer. They can deny it all they want but in the end, even those who like the harder content, will detest it months down the road when they are grinding and sick of doing the same boring instances over and over again and just want to get it "done".
Of course, those saying "we like the harder content" now, are also the ones that wont be bothering with Heroics because they will be in raids, which makes me wonder why Blizzard even cares about their opinion on the matter in the long run.
Right now, if Blizzard was to tune the trash down a bit, things would be a lot better for groups and "harder bosses" wouldn't be such a big deal because the wipe tolerance for any given group, would be used on the bosses, not the trash as is done now and those of us sick of wasting our time on failed groups, wouldn't be as pissed off.
I just hope we don't enter into a situation where Ghostcrawler and Co, will not want to "lose face" and will keep this design going even longer than it should.
Both the 5 man dungeons and raid dungeons are always overtuned when first introduced. It has been that way since the game came out. They always get nerfed to easy mode after the first initial challenge is there for the ones who care about firsts, guild rankings and the like.
It will be no different in this expansion. Everything that is challenging now will be nerfed into a cake walk within the next couple months.
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Seriously?
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-Mythril-  Title: International Man of Mythery
Posts: 118
Registered: 2001-1-6 20:42:31
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
Sad players you are. |
Few random remarks in regards to various points.
The trash numbers have been cut way down when comparing these instances to previous instances.
Consequently the bosses were made a bit harder.
Some of them do run the ragged edge on difficulty based on gear. Many aren't bad at all. Even at the minimum 329 entry level. But once you get your 5 mans carrying ~340 gear, things turn the corner on the harder bosses.
They've done alot of things to encourage guild loyalty and guild involvement. Communication makes things a lot easier on certain bosses. Guild groups make it easier. If you prefer solo play then this will hurt your gaming experience. However WoW does have a build in voice feature that the solo people should learn how to use.
It's ok to realize a certain boss is too hard at current gear level and change instances. If you are trying to do Heroic Grim Batol with 329 gear.. then you should know how that is going to go.
If you buy high level pvp gear to pop your item level up to get into heroics but your true pve item level is down at 320 then you deserve what you get. If you try them on heroic level before learning the fights on normal.. then you should know that you increased the difficulty on the learning curve.
Gem and enchant that 329 gear if you want to increase your advantage to success. Most don't. ( i didnt). The gear was getting replaced too fast to bother. Most don't. But this is a contributing factor to difficulties.
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Tongue-tied and twisted. Just an earthbound misfit; I.
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Mythphisto- Hunter;
Too many alts to list.
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
Sad players you are. |
-Mythril- posted:
It's ok to realize a certain boss is too hard at current gear level and change instances. If you are trying to do Heroic Grim Batol with 329 gear.. then you should know how that is going to go.
If you buy high level pvp gear to pop your item level up to get into heroics but your true pve item level is down at 320 then you deserve what you get. If you try them on heroic level before learning the fights on normal.. then you should know that you increased the difficulty on the learning curve.
Gem and enchant that 329 gear if you want to increase your advantage to success. Most don't. ( i didnt). The gear was getting replaced too fast to bother. Most don't. But this is a contributing factor to difficulties.
I hear this alot on the Official forums and just to clarify my stance and irritation I will reply to the "get better gear" idea. I am not irritated that there is suddenly a challenge in dungeons with cool new mechanics and the need for CC, etc.
What I am irritated about is the complete switch from having a great toolbox full of tools to use when the moment is right to now having 1 tool used 90% of the time (Base Heal) and a toolbox so expensive you can't use any of it on a regular basis.
I realize that once I got 333 overall gear level that Normals would be cake to heal cause my base heal that I spam 90% of the time heals for a lot more. But what is the point when healing is so boring I want to quit (which I have)?
Gear is not the problem, it is a mechanical issue. Once they fix healing so that it is not boring I will quit QQing.
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The VNboards are so much fun! Its like my own personal train wreck going 24/7
and noone is actually getting hurt which takes away the guilt of watching.
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Elkabong08 Posts: 77
Registered: 2010-11-5 12:23:54
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
Sad players you are. |
Auenwing posted:
Elkabong08 posted:
I am following this thread closely. Try getting this much competence and logical discussion on the WoW official boards. I'm certainly listening guys. Mo' dat. Major kiss a** bumpity.......
Eggnog is definitely OP! 
Peppermint Patties, actually. Two oz vodka, one oz schnapps, half oz creme de cacao. And, umm, yeah.....OP'ed.
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Voqar Posts: 169
Registered: 2001-3-12 10:39:10
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
Sad players you are. |
I tank for guild groups so...go me. But eventually my alts will need groups and I'll have to suffer thru pugs of failures and morons.
What they should do is make a standing or reputation system such that if you complete instances in pugs you gain brownie points, if you get booted or bail, you lose points, and your place in the queue is determined by your standing.
As long as the jerks are allowed to queue and bail with no penalty we'll have to endure disruption.
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Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that
- George Carlin
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Zero_Washu Posts: 290
Registered: 2001-9-28 05:17:03
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
Sad players you are. |
Leave the challenge to the raiders.
Would be nice that LFD would actually create viable groups, as in CC that will work in the instance. Do not count the tank in this equation, last thing I want to do is root something before the pull.
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. For everything there is a season, and a time for every purpose under heaven
. Cows go moo, Dogs go woof and MMO players go ''PVP is imbalanced''
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Ashmaele  Title: Pastor of Muppets
Posts: 1,809
Registered: 2002-1-15 08:30:50
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
Sad players you are. |
WoW players want Easy Mode, and Blizzard will oblige, just like they always have.
Case in point: Remember back in the "old days" when there were *gasp* 40-Man Raids? Remember when Blizzard removed those? Remember the reasoning behind it: "It is too hard to get 40 people together to run raids, so we're reducing it to 10- and 25-man raids to be more accommodating to the "casual gamer." Or something along those lines. Despite having far and away the largest subscriber base of any MMO in the history of ever, WoW had to dumb raiding down. I remember Sidi and dragon runs in DAOC where we had 100+ people involved in the raids (and you HAD to have that many in order to beat the content). Yet, the WoW player needed easy, and he/she got it.
The same will be true of these new changes. They'll get nerfed down to where they were during the height of WOTLK popularity and all will be right with the world again.
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I had a dream. It was an incredible dream. When I awoke, I had a huge mess to clean up.
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Boone-Eldar Title: Infallible
Posts: 273
Registered: 2001-12-28 16:31:37
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
Sad players you are. |
Ashmaele posted:
I remember Sidi and dragon runs in DAOC where we had 100+ people involved in the raids (and you HAD to have that many in order to beat the content). Yet, the WoW player needed easy, and he/she got it.
Why would I want to remember the horrid raid/dungeon design that DAoC had? By far the worst PvE I have played.
-----signature-----
Seriously?
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Ashmaele Title: Pastor of Muppets
Posts: 1,809
Registered: 2002-1-15 08:30:50
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
Sad players you are. |
 I'm not saying DAOC was better. It wasn't. I'm saying that when compared to WoW, other games like DAOC left the challenge in far longer than Blizz, whether it was the level grind, raiding, crafting or whatever.
Blizz appeals and caters to the masses, and the masses demand facerolling easy mode, that's the point.
-----signature-----
I had a dream. It was an incredible dream. When I awoke, I had a huge mess to clean up.
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Bowdi Posts: 17
Registered: 2003-7-23 08:36:08
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:01am
Subject:
Sad players you are. |
but in the end, doesnt everyone pay the same price to play the game?
why not just have everything zerg'able and if you personally want to make it harder, go in with less people and you will have the satisfaction of beating something with just a few people...why should it matter how many people go inside a dungeon? we all pay the same price to play this game...
that is why i posted this above, mostly because i was thinking of DAoC. (Mostly DF named guys) as a challenge we would use 1 group only, but as a fun guild group we would go with 4 or 5 groups. Of course it was much easier, but you know what....we had fun.
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Peace isn't merely the absence of conflict, but the presence of justice.
"  ou know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go
get and beat you with until you understand who's
in command here." - Jayne Cobb (Firefly) |
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