Some gear should be hard to get.

Hard to get, sure. Impossible without 20 other people and 3+ hours of time for each of them? Not so good.

Why? There's no reason for gear to be hard to get in DAoC.

 

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No gear that makes a unique competitive impact on RvR should be terribly hard to get. That's anti- Everything that was ever right about DAOC.

You want pretty houses and horses and decorations and unique art skins and titles and so and so forth that's great. Those are the kinds of things that would be great for UBER intrarealm PvE. Stuff that makes you known to be the big effin deal of pve in your realm. If you could ride around your realm with the heads of all the monsters you've slain orbiting with a cloak made of stormclouds that's great and you can have all of that and anything else you can imagine.

But the millisecond that this gear starts screwing with RvR then it needs to either be capped somehow so that it doesn't do anything but look fancy or simply cease to exist. RvR is about massive amounts of people fighting each other. It's not PvP ladders it's rarely ever going to be the case where the people on each end of the keyboards are very close in skill, talent, experience or interest. Giving the ones who have all that laser beams with nuclear bombs on the end is a bad idea because they a) don't need it and b) it makes the other people just quit.

 

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This game is still alive because of it's RVR and no one wants to PVE to do it

That's why everything is dumbed down, lvl'n is easier, MLs with BP/Glass, Scale system for Gear etc...

 

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Wow.. Noobs are crying to get more stuff for free, and for the game to be even more easier... Give a mouse a cookie...

 

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yeah, because pvm is serious business. -.-

imho make the whole item stuff buyable with bountypoints, problem solved.

 

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(insert sarcasm here) Should just make it so everyone can /level 50, CL10, ML10, Instant RR13, fully templated...oh wait, other than the RR13 can pretty much do the rest through the battle grounds in a matter of days! (end sarcasm)


............and they'll still cry cause they die in rvr! RAGELOG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

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This thread has nothing to do with dying in rvr...

did you read it?

It has to do with the length of PVE required and the cost of items in order to RVR...

RVR being the main aspect of this game~

 

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I agree with you that these are challenges that are frustrating and they should be addressed. I think your solution is an easymode bandaid fix though. Mythic needs to stop the easymode bandaids and Mythic needs to actually fix the real problems.


First, this gear should never have had stats that were so great the gear would create this type of challenge. Because the gear does have these stats, Mythic should do the following:


Mythic needs to simplify group creation. While I do not want the game to become WoW, Blizzard has done some things with WoW that reduce or eliminate player frustration. (Blizzard is smart enough to not take the position that “it is just tough if this causes problems for players. Players just need to stop being babies”.) One of the things that Blizzard has done is to have an automated group gathering system where players can go off and do their thing but when enough players are ready for a dungeon run the players are pulled together into the dungeon.


Mythic needs to create a system where players can sign up for a group event or a Battle Group event and then go about their crafting, or their battle ground activity or their . . . whatever. Then when enough players are ready for the event the players are given a popup that asks if they want to gather for the raid. When the player selects Yes, they are transported to the gathering place for the raid. This solution will not completely eliminate the challenge of waiting for a raid to happen but it would eliminate a great deal of the frustration.


Mythic needs to tweak the challenge so that it is not as time consuming. The larger the group then the more difficult it is to get everyone together which adds to the frustration. Games should be fun and challenging, not frustrating. One method of making the challenge less frustrating is to make the drop more likely to happen or to give players credit that they can later turn in for an item rather than have a player attend a long and frustrating PvE event over and over and over and over and over but still not get the gear they need for RvR.


Mythic needs to create an automated method for drop dispersal so that the leader can’t run off with the loot. Blizzard understands how this challenge can cause harm to a games population. At WoW if a group leader does not follow agreed loot dispersal rules the leader can be appealed and Blizzard WILL TAKE ACTION against the leader. IMO Blizzards method is excessively labor intensive for CSRs. A better method is simply to have 3 or 4 automatic dispersal choices and once the choice is picked, it is automated and no CSR review should ever be necessary.

Vyxar posted:

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big raids just aren't fun and aren't in the spirit of daoc.


daoc is a single player game wrapped into an mmo whose brilliance over EQ was that a player always had a choice of playing alone or grouped to advance. Since advancement in pve is 100% about gear nowadays that contract keeps getting broken in favor of the big epic raid motif. Going all the way back to DF's introduction the "seal" economy has proven better than the "epic encounter" mentality.


And each time it happens that gear that is limited by encounters requiring than a group it angers and annoys people and promotes exploits and bad behavior and all the crap that we'd be better off without.

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I agree with almost everything you posted, except “big raids just aren't fun and aren't in the spirit of daoc.”


Big raids can be fun, but they should not be mandatory. If a raid gives access to gear that is only marginally better than other gear, and if alternate gear is available that has almost the same stats as the raid gear, then the raid is mostly an optional diversion rather than a mandatory frustration.


Also, if the code were changed to improve some things: automated drop/loot dispersal, gathering a group made easier, less than a 2hr event, drops that were not mandatory to have, etc. . . then raids could actually be fun from time to time rather than a frustrating event that is almost guaranteed to piss off players.

Chilliconcarvy posted:

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Some gear should be hard to get.

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I agree that some gear should be hard to get, except when that "some gear" gear is almost mandatory to have.

Vyxar posted:

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No gear that makes a unique competitive impact on RvR should be terribly hard to get. That's anti- Everything that was ever right about DAOC.

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I completely agree.

Corfel posted:

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This game is still alive because of it's RVR and no one wants to PVE to do it


That's why everything is dumbed down, lvl'n is easier, MLs with BP/Glass, Scale system for Gear etc...

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That makes a great sound bite but the paradigm is totally incorrect.


While the vast majority of DAoC players may be RvR centric, the vast majority of MMO player want to PvE from time to time. The vast majority of MMO players are PvE centric and while they may RvR from time to time, if the PvE sucks they will find some other game with fewer frustrations (like WoW with its 10 million +++ PvE centric players)


In the early years DAoC had a huge population of PvE centric players and the game had a much more vibrant population than it has today.


The more Mythic (now Bioware) focuses on RvR incentives and the more Mythic/Bioware makes the game easy mode, the more the game dies.

 

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The art of war is simple enough. Find out where your enemy is.
Get at him as soon as you can. Strike him as hard as you can,
and keep moving. - Ulysses S. Grant
Only the dead have seen the end of war - Plato