And nothing directed towards the actual argument of:



Good job~

 

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Champ has snare and instant DD, both on a 20s RUT and can considerably lower another caster's potential with the d/q debuff+banelord timers. That makes 5+1(the d/q debuff). VW has a snare on a 20s RUT, and a dot on a 30s timer. That makes 2, and less worthy than the champ's. Plus dots are less interesting than a pure DD because they are fundamentally in conflict with your bard's (or midfield druid) roots and mezzes.
Compared to what other frontline hybrid classes can do in terms of interrupting, champ is already lackluster in this department, barely fitting the role.
Since true melee dps on a 2-tanks setup is easily negated nowadays with red/yellow haste debuff+6s pbt, and 3xcloth casters (or more) easily deny your casting abilities, VWs are just fodder on the frontline, unless they use MoC+disease, but that's only 30s per combat.

Their best place would indeed be midfield as Awsten states...except we don't have 9 slots, but 8.





Midfield? What kind of setup are we talking about? In a standard balanced hib setup you need 2 frontline tanks+ 2 midfield supports+1 backline support+ either 3 cloth casters on the backline or a BG class+2 cloth casters so that your 2 casters can actually lift their arms outside of MoC. 2 BG-less casters are easily managed by any frontline hybrid with a half-decent player behind. Whose place is the VW taking then?
- If it's a frontline tank' slot, the lone tank left would just be fodder to the other casters, or he'll be playing much more midline, a case which favors the group with the longest reach, a game a hib setup can't afford to play against alb.
- If it's a support, you'll see your allies and yourself drop very much faster.

why are we bringing champs into this? this discussion is about thanes and someone compared them to valewalkers...

 

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I haven't seen a single VW for months in competitive hib groups. Most hibs must be idiots, afterall. That's why albs and mids have it so easy.

We have already stated problems that Thanes face and good reasonable solutions to fix it. And earlier someone had stated Thanes have a bonus to range which is slightly true IF we were up against standard DD nukes. Pretty hard to overcome bolt range mezz and the 100 alb wizards with 3 bolts each. Thanes hammers won't interrupt that. Albs are smart, put the scouts and wizards on keep walls and they can pretty much wipe anything with superior range. I'd have to dig deep to research things, but it seems Mids are underpowered in the case of 1850 range classes. Again I'd have to look more into that. But seriously, Thanes needs some improvement overall. I'd even enjoy reducing our caste times down...3.0 is long time to caste when Thanes get no dex bonuses.

RM 2x 1875 Bolt + 2300 NS
WL 2x 1875 Bolt + range primer for secondaries like NS
Hunter 2100
Thane 1700, 1650 insta (unique), 1600 AE (unique)
Healer 2300 AoE Amnesia

Quite a few 1875+ options in Midgard too, but you can't have both all of the best melee classes and all of the best caster classes in the same realm.

(3x Charge, nuff said!)

In the open field I agree the Sorcs bolt range mess is a big factor, but in CQ battles the insta AE mess still beats it handily.

Thanes are the only hybrid with beyond 1500 base range on their DDs, not to mention their insta DD, and of course the only class in the game with an AE DD beyond 1500 range. (And a rather potent one at that...*cough* Smite AE DD *cough*!)

I'm sure that was at least partially implemented to offset the difficulty of getting 10% Range into a Thane temp, so in effect it serves a very similar purpose as the Heretics self RP buff.


I just don't think that Thanes need love anymore then many other classes in the game. I don't mind them getting love, I just don't share the sentiment that it is urgent (or more urgent then at least a hand full of other classes). I also don't agree with many of the reasons presented, and certainly not many/most of the solutions suggested.

 

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The kind of thinking espoused in this thread is exactly why Hibs are behind the curve in terms of RvR and specifically 8v8...

Many including myself have argued time and time again that hibs get tunnel vision for whatever reason and start believing that the only way to run is a certain setup with nothing else but that setup.


BTW Dark I didn't quite understand your train of thought with the actual portion of your post dealing with the issues at hand. Admittedly you lost be my saying they are not needed for killing randoms on the mainland...

 

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In the past month, there has only been one consistent Hib 8v8 group (and you're not in it). You can count the number of VWs in said group's vids (spoiler: the count is zero):

http://www.gamefront.com/files/21091690/Untitled.wmv
http://etilader.com/donks/Obelisk/ReturnOfTheDonk.wmv
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=F8H9D21M




It's pretty simple to follow, you claimed:



And they aren't necessary at all in 8v8, zerg groups, mainland groups, lab groups, whatever.

 

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Yeah, yeah, we know that gospel. Hibs have OP things but they are too stupid to play properly.

Funny fact is, an overwhelming majority of the mid/alb groups rolling on hib to teach us the game get rolled over and over again before they run back to their own realms.


I'm sure you'd have better results if you started your own team with your exotic teamcomp. I can't wait until you release the vid of you stomping decent mid/alb groups.

Another week another bump.


I finally got my thane doing some decent melee dps with OK defense. Still cant get the spell damage up to par.


Yesterday, I was debuffed by a cabby and nuked sorc... Sorc crit me for 918 with MoM5, I nuked him back for 239 (-177). Sorc being a primary CC class, I think thane's spell damage, considering they have NO cc, should be a bit better.


Thane's sacrifice all CC, getaway toys, and defensive abilities/spells. A thane should be able to melee with the best and ranged DPS with the best. It is a pure DPS class as is, I think this would be the best resolution.


Otherwise new CC, getaway toys, or defensive abilities/spells should be added. They need either 1 or the other. Group utility is also welcome.

 

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