another week another bump

 

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No, I said the VW side chain is as powerful as the exact same thing a melee thane would be doing if they got off a side stun. The bit about WoC and ST was all in addition to that, so perhaps I should have stated it elsewhere, but it's my fault you were confused and for that I apologize. But even if you compare the 2 whole classes in a 1v1, I'm still saying Thane comes out on top. You can't kite a Thane, and a VW just doesn't have the HP to stand toe-to-toe against Thane with his dump up.

Anyway, I digress from the original point. To state it again, "If you're not a caster thane like a smart person, then you still get an 8 second side stun, 150dd chain of your choosing, and the final 2 instas."

3 more seconds of stun, your choice of DD chains, and 2 instas to top it all off is definitely on par with the VW side chain.

 

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Not even close really. Especially considering the spell line sacrifices.

Vales styles have better growth than a heavy tank and even a BM. Less end consumption and easier chain-ability than shield line could ever have.

Even if a thane did go 35 shield 50 weapon like you imply (which is pretty gimpy). It would still be a 2 style chain after a side/back/reactive no-hit-bonus shield stun to start dps'ing. You can't compare that to side chain with stun and DD or "anytime" frontal chain both with great +to hit and growth.

Scythe + inherent unspec'd evade > hammer/sword/axe + spec'd shield defense

But I also digress, vale and thane both pale in comparison to many other classes and have for many years.

 

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vale and thane are similar in that they can play backfield defender with BM and stuns

 

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And you can't compare a VW's cast damage to a thane's cast damage. What is your point exactly ? That thanes should be as good as valers in melee and also retain their better spells ?

Why cant you compare thane nuke to vale nuke?


A Vale with a good pierce template and acuity buff can top 500 damage per nuke with mom7/acuity7. Thane cannot achieve that damage even with debuff, with equivalent RA's and template. Thane's advantage in nukes is range instead of lifetap, not higher damage; Vale's win in nuke dps due to acuity buff and inherent lifetap damage bonus.


The lower cast speed by 0.1 seconds and "higher delve" are supposed to make up for no acuity buff but it does not in reality. Acuity buff > 30 delve.

 

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Casted damage is not just the nuke. It' everything in a caster's arsenal. A Thane can practically insta drop a target with his dump and a few nukes.

Their role as casters in a group is very similar except VWs don't get guard nor do they have an AoE nuke for pet clears. Also they don't have access to a cheesy snare style for peeling.

As far as melee goes, VW is definitely the better melee class, but in a group setting your side chain is not nearly as useful since it breaks CC, and a VW will lose 1v1 to a thane with its dump off CD.

Thane's are not a bad class. They could benefit from a few buffs here and there but as it stands they're a great F8 nuker and a phenomenal addition to a mid caster train.

 

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You have been watching too many "thane kills bot in 4 seconds" videos.


In real rvr, Doomhammer doesn't land when you want it to. Pbt, block, parry, evade, miss, 700 range, and 4+ seconds not being able to nuke after an attempt make it unreliable in a F8 nuke situation, and it does disarm for 10 seconds. Its a great ability similar to the level 50 baseline vale nuke which has no downside, just a cooldown. It will reduce your dps if attempted on caster due to pbt.


Thane RR5 does 250 damamge on 1 target. Unless theres more around then it can do up to 750 split among 2-3 targets. Thats just not a lot per target. No "frontload" there


WoC5? 150 range pbae... 30 RA points thanes dont have.


So thanes really get a standard speed nuke after the lack of dex (it takes a frostie Aug dex5, 17 dex at creation 101 in template, 10 cast speed, to hit the 1.1 second nuke speed) and get 1 insta, 143 delve every 20 seconds. Oh and dont forget no acuity buff.


Not gonna insta drop much with that, maybe a brehon caster with no heals.

 

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But they don't need a ton more damamge. Just a way to get to this average level more easily and without sooooooo many sacrifices.


There are 10-12 things I'd be a proponent of. I'd like to see 3-4 of them actually happen, but certianly not all.


2.2 spec, 10 pierce self buff, a bit more HP, a group buff or 2 (endo redux), a defensive/escape rr5, access to caster artifacts, a bolt (medium delve), self DA increased, some utility added in shield, shield once again able to block arrows at a normal rate, a shitty version of stoicism (15%?), a shitty version of tank free AoM9 (maybe 10% base?).


Oh and nerf poisions+viper+pierce but thats another story.

 

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I would LOVE to see Thane's get a spell pierce self buff, I'll agree with you 110% on that. Other than that I have to disagree 110% with your assessment of the Thane dump. First of all, WoC is a great RA and is incredibly underutilized, especially nowadays when fair fights are rare. 3 assassins pop on you? WoC, RR5, ST and proceed to beat down the rest of their 20-25% health. Maybe it's because I come from Mordred, but Thane's there are like Champs in that they're notorious for sitting in Cammy until their timers are up, running out, killing 3 people instantly and then booking it back to Cammy for another 15 minutes. Yes, I've seen Thane's drop enemies in 3 seconds, but none of them were bots in videos. I used to run with this one Thane on Mordred called Thudi who ran WoC. He referred to his dump as the "Thudi bomb" and it being up usually meant the difference between dying to 4 people and getting 4 kills.

The great thing about Thanes is you can group as an F8 nuker and coast to RR8 at which point you can respec to WoC/ST for soloing and rape all the bad smallmans and stealth groups that try to run you over.

 

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