Date Posted:1/1/00 12:02amSubject:
OMG thanes need love!
Grish11 posted: Some ideas have been thrown out there,every single one of em has been shot down as a fix to the thanes current problems.
To criticize ideas while offering none of your own is easy,step up to the plate and tell us what would you do to fix the class.
Changes are obvious, it's just you're not seeing the big picture, looking at the thane with a magnifying glass and saying: "everything is wrong: no warrior hp, no SM stat debuffs, no hybrid WS, no healer CCs, just fix it already!".
The thane problem is that the game is running awry with that pro-caster attitude from Mythic. People used to need battlemaster tanks to counter frontline tanks. Multi-defensive procs,compromise-less mage templates, most RR5 RAs which happen to be anti-melee, and the simple fact that mages have learnt to use their debuffs over the years make sure that frontline tanks' damage is often easily negated.
If groups actually feared frontline tanks, the class would be a very good option as the semi-caster it is rather than grouping yet another squishie. With squishies being almost as well-off as you are with your chain mail why would they group a thane, or a warrior, or any defensive tank you might think of?
You want thanes to be desirable? Advocate for enemy tanks boosts or nerfs to your caster allies(and enemies).
Battlemaster tanks no longer have a purpose in this game because frontline tanks are no longer a threat: that is your problem. Not your defense, not your physical or magic damage, not your utility, all of them far from top-notch but pretty decent as an hybrid class.
I can't understand why it is that no Mythic employee has seen tanks become pure fodder for mages over the years. It is so blatant, yet they still put more and more defensive procs or sleeves with power regen, debuffs...etc
DarkPCK Title: Got to go house is on fire. Posts: 457 Registered: 2003-12-14 12:38:01
Date Posted:1/1/00 12:03amSubject:
OMG thanes need love!
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DakRT: And 4 Scouts makes a [stealth] zerg huh?
Zyzyg: What anytime snare are you talking about?...Your anytime style should be Polar Rift. Clearly you don't play a Shadowblade.
Steot: Its fact, I just dont have proof.
Date Posted:1/1/00 12:03amSubject:
OMG thanes need love!
ArcApt posted:
Grish11 posted: Some ideas have been thrown out there,every single one of em has been shot down as a fix to the thanes current problems.
To criticize ideas while offering none of your own is easy,step up to the plate and tell us what would you do to fix the class.
Changes are obvious, it's just you're not seeing the big picture, looking at the thane with a magnifying glass and saying: "everything is wrong: no warrior hp, no SM stat debuffs, no hybrid WS, no healer CCs, just fix it already!".
The thane problem is that the game is running awry with that pro-caster attitude from Mythic. People used to need battlemaster tanks to counter frontline tanks. Multi-defensive procs,compromise-less mage templates, most RR5 RAs which happen to be anti-melee, and the simple fact that mages have learnt to use their debuffs over the years make sure that frontline tanks' damage is often easily negated.
If groups actually feared frontline tanks, the class would be a very good option as the semi-caster it is rather than grouping yet another squishie. With squishies being almost as well-off as you are with your chain mail why would they group a thane, or a warrior, or any defensive tank you might think of?
You want thanes to be desirable? Advocate for enemy tanks boosts or nerfs to your caster allies(and enemies).
Battlemaster tanks no longer have a purpose in this game because frontline tanks are no longer a threat: that is your problem. Not your defense, not your physical or magic damage, not your utility, all of them far from top-notch but pretty decent as an hybrid class.
I can't understand why it is that no Mythic employee has seen tanks become pure fodder for mages over the years. It is so blatant, yet they still put more and more defensive procs or sleeves with power regen, debuffs...etc
I agree with a lot of this. That's why only charge classes get groups. Hell, even heavy's aren't wanted even with their resists/HP's/DPS.
Seems like some people here think Thanes are super gimp, and other think they are OP already. I think they are in the middle - a decent class that can excel in certain scenario's, but could use a little bump to make them on par with most others. Honestly, 3 things would make them better for all playstyles: endo redux buff (to be able to use BM styles), Spell pierce buff (to make templating much easier for all play styles), and a WS boost to be with other hybrids. These changes make their melee competitive and really not noticable in the big scheme of things.
Date Posted:1/1/00 12:03amSubject:
OMG thanes need love!
Phlei posted:
ArcApt posted:
Grish11 posted: Some ideas have been thrown out there,every single one of em has been shot down as a fix to the thanes current problems.
To criticize ideas while offering none of your own is easy,step up to the plate and tell us what would you do to fix the class.
Changes are obvious, it's just you're not seeing the big picture, looking at the thane with a magnifying glass and saying: "everything is wrong: no warrior hp, no SM stat debuffs, no hybrid WS, no healer CCs, just fix it already!".
The thane problem is that the game is running awry with that pro-caster attitude from Mythic. People used to need battlemaster tanks to counter frontline tanks. Multi-defensive procs,compromise-less mage templates, most RR5 RAs which happen to be anti-melee, and the simple fact that mages have learnt to use their debuffs over the years make sure that frontline tanks' damage is often easily negated.
If groups actually feared frontline tanks, the class would be a very good option as the semi-caster it is rather than grouping yet another squishie. With squishies being almost as well-off as you are with your chain mail why would they group a thane, or a warrior, or any defensive tank you might think of?
You want thanes to be desirable? Advocate for enemy tanks boosts or nerfs to your caster allies(and enemies).
Battlemaster tanks no longer have a purpose in this game because frontline tanks are no longer a threat: that is your problem. Not your defense, not your physical or magic damage, not your utility, all of them far from top-notch but pretty decent as an hybrid class.
I can't understand why it is that no Mythic employee has seen tanks become pure fodder for mages over the years. It is so blatant, yet they still put more and more defensive procs or sleeves with power regen, debuffs...etc
I agree with a lot of this. That's why only charge classes get groups. Hell, even heavy's aren't wanted even with their resists/HP's/DPS.
Seems like some people here think Thanes are super gimp, and other think they are OP already. I think they are in the middle - a decent class that can excel in certain scenario's, but could use a little bump to make them on par with most others. Honestly, 3 things would make them better for all playstyles: endo redux buff (to be able to use BM styles), Spell pierce buff (to make templating much easier for all play styles), and a WS boost to be with other hybrids. These changes make their melee competitive and really not noticable in the big scheme of things.
Id take those and be a happy camper.
Id at least like them to take a look into the hammer line too, its just kind of stupid to have the defining weapon of the patron god be subpar,it just requires a few tweaks
One thing for all classes I would like them to do,is take a look into the 3rd ml line option Mythic had thought about.
Date Posted:1/1/00 12:03amSubject:
OMG thanes need love!
First of all, Darkt I wasn't trying to make it personal. I realize that if you're right what I said seems absurd to you, but without taking the time to test it myself to ensure that every single aspect in your test was correct, I will simply err on the side of caution and go with what have been very reliable sources in the past.
I urge you to make your case with facts to put those SSs out there and prove to people that Thanes WS is lower then most other hybrids out there. That's great and if you're right, and you may well be, then excellent keep at it and convince us & Mythic that something is awry.
A few things to add. I certainly don't think Thanes are OPd. I do think some adjustments are probably warranted, but almost any class in the game can say this. I am no convinced there is any dire need, and most of all I'm 100% convinced that an extremely minor boost in WS, HPs, and improvements to the Hammer Line will in any way change the way that a Thane performs in RvR. Thus I have to reason that the need for these changes isn't that dire.
I agree a whole bunch with the above posters who talked about the general issue of Caster groups being largely superior in most cases...but then I've seen especially Mid groups disprove that, although those groups were chock full of Charge classes. (And Savages are borderline OPd, I think we all can agree with that...or at least that there is almost no reason for any other light tank to exist, because they all pale to Savages ATM.)
Date Posted:1/1/00 12:03amSubject:
OMG thanes need love!
DakRT posted: Wind, I generally agree with almost everything you comment on but this time I don't. As you suggested, pictures show evidence, and as such:
