you might note, eq and eq2 both have over 100k subscribers still... thats 200k between them.. complete PVE games.... final fantasy still over 350k subs, more subs then daoc ever had, complete PVE game... LOTRO, 350k subscribers.... 90% PVE game with waterdowned PVP were you dont even play your own character in it...
and of course not on that chart, because that chart is sub 1mil subscribers... theres WoW, noone can doutb that its mostly PVE with PVP as a sideline for most of the players... and 12million subscribers... mostly raid oriented, as you mentioned yourself that it requires grinding PVE even to PVP... yet it still has over 10million subscribers, more subscribers then the rest of the MMO market combined...
there we go... planetside, peaked at 60k subs before dieing completely
shadowbane peaked at 50k subs before dieing completely...
less then eq1, a 12 year old PVE focused game has...
Pillowjunky posted: We will see if your PvE argument holds true for SWTOR over the next couple of months. SWTOR is mostly a PvE story driven game with a bit of PvP on the side. Let's see if it can retain over 1.5 million subscribers 3 to 6 months from now. I'm bettting NO. If PvE was the main thing that mattered, then EQ2 would have been a massive success.
we dont need to look to the future, when the past clearly shows and proves out that PVE is the main driving force in every successful MMO.
Pillowjunky posted: I think another reason people left DAoC shortly after ToA was the lack of "fun" PvP stuff.
you call no decline at all in population for a year, peopel leaving shortly after? shortly would have been in 3 months...
not having the game population surge upwards 50k, then hold at a peak of 250k for a year before finally declining with the release of EQ2/WOW and a neutered DAoC expansion that had no real PVE content for existing players (catacombs, had 1 instanced raid dungeon for a single group, all other content was sub 50)
Pillowjunky posted: Sometimes you need more than a "new frontiers" to keep people interested.
more then new frontiers.... so you mean like the battlegrounds, darkness falls, POC and its later revampiing and then the labby... you mean those kinds of other areas to pvp in...
mythic tried adding more PVP areas to try and bring players back that were bored of the same old PVP grind, but all it did was spread the population out so it took forever to find someone to fight... it was even more boring...
especialy when the entire time the playerbase was screaming to go back to smaller, older PVP content, emain...
Date Posted:1/1/00 12:00amSubject:
Dominus replacing DAoC late next year?
ArkadyTepes posted: http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-2.png
TOA was the PEAK of subscriber levels and revenue for Mythic... it made the most money, had the most users, and more people bought TOA expansion then bought any of the other expansions...
That only tells that at the time ToA came out, DAOC was at the highest point in terms of subscribers. I would wager that if you asked 10,000 players their thoughts on it 90%+ of them will tell you that ToA was terrible for the game and was by far the worst expansion ever released by Mythic. Of course they bought it.. they didn't know what was coming.
ArkadyTepes posted: http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-2.png
we dont need to look to the future, when the past clearly shows and proves out that PVE is the main driving force in every successful MMO.
False, PvE is not an important aspect of Eve Online and it has been a very successful MMO. When you look into the past though you have to keep in mind when games were released and what generation/category of games you should compare them to. Comparing WoW to DAOC isn't fair as WoW was the next step in gaming at the time. A fair comparison would be to compare DAOC with EQ1.. and even Shadowbane. Eq1 had the largest amount of subscribers with DAOC gaining ground.. where DAOC messed up is where they tried to be like EQ1 and released ToA... that was a utter disaster for them. If DAOC would have kept to their roots they may have surpassed Eq1 in terms of subscribers.. but they turned their back on their bread and butter which was RvR and released a terrible expansion in ToA that was extremely buggy and ran a large portion of their subscribers away from the game. Note that at the time Eve online continued to gain subscribers and kept gaining them over a number of years.
Shadowbane was taking the RvR/PvP concept even further and could have passed them all, their revolutionary approach to a mmorpg was very exciting but in the end the game was very buggy and the company wasn't fit to produce a major MMORPG.
Then WoW came out, and innovation and risk went out the door.. ever since then nearly every MMORPG has been a WoW clone in one way or another and that continues today. It's time for something different, Dominus may be it, I don't know. But at least they aren't trying to be WoW and it looks like trying to be a updated version of DAOC. If you like DAOC, you would be doing yourself a big disservice by not at least trying Dominus.
-----signature-----
Keep in mind almost everything I said here on these forums has come true exactly as I said and I was laughed at and insulted,
as usual. --Xalaten
Date Posted:1/1/00 12:00amSubject:
Dominus replacing DAoC late next year?
Its easier to run a PvE focused or instanciated PvP game. DAoC is one of the few games that summons zergs and from a technical perspective this is what causes most of the lag and performance problems. we have better computers now than we had 10 years ago, but the demands placed upon networks and servers is still substantial. DAoC's everybody into the pool approach to RvR is both its strength and its greatest weakness. There will never be another game like this, so enjoy it while it is still here
Date Posted:1/1/00 12:00amSubject:
Dominus replacing DAoC late next year?
Daminada posted: That only tells that at the time ToA came out, DAOC was at the highest point in terms of subscribers. I would wager that if you asked 10,000 players their thoughts on it 90%+ of them will tell you that ToA was terrible for the game and was by far the worst expansion ever released by Mythic. Of course they bought it.. they didn't know what was coming.
look at TOA's release date marked on the chart, people came back to the game or started fresh... specificaly for TOA, TOA wasnt released at the PEAK of the game, TOA CAUSED THE PEAK. it doesnt matter how you try and spin it, or how many bitter players you try and poll, the facts dont lie, and the fact is, TOA was the most successful expansion.
Daminada posted: False, PvE is not an important aspect of Eve Online and it has been a very successful MMO.
PvE not an important aspect of EvE Online?
okay, where would people get ships if it wasnt for the miners out mining? ... because without those PVE miners, there are no minerals, hence no ships, no t1 or t2 equipment, no POS towers, no faction ships even because only blue prints drop, you have to build the faction ships from minerals mined from PVE, and where do those awesome faction ships like the nightmare and machariel come from... oh thats right.. PVE ... where do all the awesome officer and deadspace mods come from.. oh thats right PVE... where do all the t3 ship materials come from... yup PVE...
without PVE and the player ran market... EvE would have everyone flying around in newb frigates ... because there would be no other way to get any ships in the game.
EvE is 100% PVE dependant.
yes, the minority of MMO players that dont want to PVE dont have to in EVE they can just jump right in, buy a GTC sell a few plex's then go out a PEWPEWPEWing in pvp, but the PVE players run the game... not the PVP guys.
Daminada posted: you would be doing yourself a big disservice by not at least trying Dominus.
so its a genre i dislike, and a format (factions) i dislike, yet for some reason i should play it... no, that doesnt seem right at all.
i liked daoc for its interface, general feel of the characters as i played them, and the game mechanics (how combat styles/positionals worked, spells, interupts) but i always hated the 3 divided realms, wich is why the majority of my characters were on Mordred and Gaheris, so i could play without the faction limitations, and still choose if i wanted to just PVE or PVP....
look at TOA's release date marked on the chart, people came back to the game or started fresh... specificaly for TOA, TOA wasnt released at the PEAK of the game, TOA CAUSED THE PEAK. it doesnt matter how you try and spin it, or how many bitter players you try and poll, the facts dont lie, and the fact is, TOA was the most successful expansion.
uh, by your own chart when you mark ToA being release it shows it being around 240,000... As I said, the ToA release was a peak because they advertised it hard and they were trying to be like EQ1. I remember a number of folks from EQ1 coming over to try it. But as anybody who lived through it will tell you.. IT WAS A HUGE FRICKING DISASTER OF AN EXPANSION. Nothing like doing ML3.1 to 3.8.. lding and not getting credit.. then having to do the whole thing again.. awesome design that was. lol
ArkadyTepes posted: PvE not an important aspect of EvE Online?
okay, where would people get ships if it wasnt for the miners out mining? ... because without those PVE miners, there are no minerals, hence no ships, no t1 or t2 equipment, no POS towers, no faction ships even because only blue prints drop, you have to build the faction ships from minerals mined from PVE, and where do those awesome faction ships like the nightmare and machariel come from... oh thats right.. PVE ... where do all the awesome officer and deadspace mods come from.. oh thats right PVE... where do all the t3 ship materials come from... yup PVE...
without PVE and the player ran market... EvE would have everyone flying around in newb frigates ... because there would be no other way to get any ships in the game.
EvE is 100% PVE dependant.
yes, the minority of MMO players that dont want to PVE dont have to in EVE they can just jump right in, buy a GTC sell a few plex's then go out a PEWPEWPEWing in pvp, but the PVE players run the game... not the PVP guys.
Have you even played Eve? Yes, there is mining, there is crafting, there is a market but guess what.. THAT'S NOT PVE YOU IDIOT!! Those are features found in most any mmorpg, for you to mine, craft and then ultimatly sell for the big isk you had to do it in the PvP zones. In Eve the PvE was to get you started but the game didn't really start until you got out into the 0 sec space.
ArkadyTepes posted: so its a genre i dislike, and a format (factions) i dislike, yet for some reason i should play it... no, that doesnt seem right at all.
i liked daoc for its interface, general feel of the characters as i played them, and the game mechanics (how combat styles/positionals worked, spells, interupts) but i always hated the 3 divided realms, wich is why the majority of my characters were on Mordred and Gaheris, so i could play without the faction limitations, and still choose if i wanted to just PVE or PVP....
Ahh, it all makes sense now. You really didn't play DAOC if you were on Mordred or Gaheris, that's why your mind is so f'ed up when it comes to this stuff. Go back to Mordred, the server is waiting for you. lol
-----signature-----
Keep in mind almost everything I said here on these forums has come true exactly as I said and I was laughed at and insulted,
as usual. --Xalaten
Date Posted:1/1/00 12:00amSubject:
Dominus replacing DAoC late next year?
Daminada posted: In Eve the PvE was to get you started but the game didn't really start until you got out into the 0 sec space.
Then why is there such a large segment of the population that never leaves empire space? One of my biggest issues with EVE was that it required constant pve (whether it be mining/ratting/missions etc.) to keep a supply of ships and fittings.
Date Posted:1/1/00 12:00amSubject:
Dominus replacing DAoC late next year?
Daminada posted: uh, by your own chart when you mark ToA being release it shows it being around 240,000...
on release day yes it was somewhere between 230 and 240 ... but advertising started 6 months prior, and beta testing on pendragon 3 months prior... and if you look subscribers were closer to 210k 6 months before TOA... TOA brought them back, and kept them at 250k for a year... the only time the game had a population that was steady and not on a decline.. the game peaked a year after launch then started loosing subscribers, and SI held off the lose for a little while, but it was TOA that brought people back and kept them playing untill catacombs came along and had no content to do realy, so people got bored and left.
Daminada posted: Have you even played Eve? Yes, there is mining, there is crafting, there is a market but guess what.. THAT'S NOT PVE YOU IDIOT!! Those are features found in most any mmorpg, for you to mine, craft and then ultimatly sell for the big isk you had to do it in the PvP zones. In Eve the PvE was to get you started but the game didn't really start until you got out into the 0 sec space.
yes i play eve, 6 accounts, between 20mil SP on my lowest, and 50 mil SP on my highest, i mine out in 0.0, or run anoms, or go WH exploring with alliance members, do incursions when i'm otherwise bored and no-one in the alliance is on... mining is eve's version of PVE, so is incursions, anoms and complex's wich is where the blue prints and mods come from.. without people running complex's or missions, you dont have officer/deadspace mods, or faction ships at all.. because someone must PVE to get them, then mine to build them... eve may have alot of PVP and may advertise/focus on the PVP end of it.. but without the PVE without the carebears... the game would go tits up in a month.
Daminada posted: Ahh, it all makes sense now. You really didn't play DAOC if you were on Mordred or Gaheris, that's why your mind is so f'ed up when it comes to this stuff. Go back to Mordred, the server is waiting for you. lol
i've been playing MMO's sense before they were called MMO's ... i played text based MUDs, my experience starts with those, then moves into EQ, UO, AC, AO, DAoC, eq2, vanguard, LOTRO... well pretty much everything except WoW, COH/V, and Conan....
my opinions are based on over 20 years experience in online RPGs and market data... yours is based on your feelings about DAoC.
i prefer to live in the real world and recognize it for what it is...
i dislike mac n cheese, cant stand it... but i know most of the world does like it.
just because i dislike something doesnt mean i cant see what is real...
you like many people on here, love PVP/RVR, and think thats how everyone should feel, but sorry to burst your tiny lil bubble, but thats not reality, reality is the majority of MMO players are PvE oriented, and play MMOs strickly for the PvE.
Date Posted:1/1/00 12:00amSubject:
Dominus replacing DAoC late next year?
wiciri posted:
Daminada posted: In Eve the PvE was to get you started but the game didn't really start until you got out into the 0 sec space.
Then why is there such a large segment of the population that never leaves empire space? One of my biggest issues with EVE was that it required constant pve (whether it be mining/ratting/missions etc.) to keep a supply of ships and fittings.
Which will be something Dominus is also aiming for.. quickly degrading gear requiring hours of pve farming in rvr zones (ie. annoying gankfest instead of sublime thrilling pvp)... although EVE takes it to the extreme.. it's required in that game for how it's economy runs, but it's boring nevertheless.. I prefer to pvp versus pve for gear/material in rvr zones.
