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Topic:
Blizzard: Forgetting how you got from A to B? [Locked] |
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
Blizzard: Forgetting how you got from A to B? |
Fedup23 posted:
They should have shot for the "in-between". Yknow.. produce something a bit harder than WOTLK and a bit less tedious than Cata. They may have been able to satisfy everyone. Does that sound crazy? 
I think they DID shoot for that. My impression of their mindset was that the regulars were for regular players and the heroics for the top players, until they inevitably nerf them (as we all knew they would).
Unfortunately they don't seem to have realized that 90% of the players think they ARE the top players.
It's not a simple problem with a linear solution anyways. There's multiple problems with the system (not the least of which is the fact they went and made pretty much every class simply less fun) that are distorting the situation, magnifying the problems, or both.
-----signature-----
Thanks, but it's been fun
Five more minutes then I'm done!
I've been saying that to myself since
...yesterday.
- from "Has anybody seen my corpse". Man Everquest rocked back in the day...
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Sprawl-zero1eye-  Title: IGN Vault Staff
Reziztance iz Futile
Posts: 1,001
Registered: 2002-6-28 03:39:29
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
Blizzard: Forgetting how you got from A to B? |
Good post, Gutter.
-----signature-----
Mirkwood MUD, OneEye IvoryFang, Lord of the VampireZ (Retired)
AC Frostfell, Clan Z - Lvl 239 Grief Dagger (Retired)
WoW Lightbringer Alliance, Z Guild - Lvl 85 Combat Rogue (Retired)
Making iOS Apps these days at http://zsprawl.com/iOS |
Quazimortal Title: The One and Only
Posts: 1,557
Registered: 2004-9-18 21:52:58
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
Blizzard: Forgetting how you got from A to B? |
Broken_Kayfabe posted:
Quazimortal posted:
I understand perfectly.
No you don't. You don't understand the barest fraction of what I said. You're as far from understanding it as my dachshund is from understanding calculus. This is because you are, in general, a pretty stupid individual.
But, the world needs all types, so I will explain the difference for you. No charge; I don't want you to hurt yourself counting pennies out anyways.
You see, Quazidimwit, things that challenge your character are those things that work inside the core game mechanics. At the most basic, least interesting level, people (in WoW) call them gearchecks. Statistical numbers vs the mob's statistical numbers. That's the most shallow version of it, of course. Other things that qualify are healing, using tanking abilities, and using crowd control abilities. These are abilities the character has, and many people like the challenge that comes with being able to best use character abilities in encounters to overcome a challenge - a tough pull, lots of healing needed, CCing mobs out of the fight, making that key taunt. Yes, it takes the player to do them, but whether or not they can is controlled by the character's definition. You know, the character? The pretty picture on the screen that moves when you hit a key? The character. Something with stats and abilities and such in the game. Very different from the player.
The player is you. Not the character. And challenges directed to the player can be quite different. They include things like puzzles (not so much in WoW), say to finish a quest in a game that doesn't tell you explicitly what, where, when, and how to finish it. It also includes gimmicks in encounters, things that don't actually make any in-game sense but are added to "add challenge" to the encounter because either the system is too limited to require actual character ability use to it, or because the designers aren't imaginative enough to make anything but gearchecks when they try. If you have to run and hide behind an iceblock while the dragon is flying in the air (or die), that's a challenge to the player, not the character. These things are NOT controlled by the definition of the character - any player can (and usually has to) do them regardless of who their character is. Player challenges. Not character.
Now I understand this was probably too much for you, a genuinely unintelligent individual, to comprehend, and you'll try to dismiss it with some glib insult because your pride's been hurt. That's quite all right, feel free, if it makes your small mind relax a bit. No skin off my butt. After all, if there weren't people like you around, how would the rest of us know that we are better than average?
What a bunch of blah blah blah all to prove you don't know what the fuck you are talking about. Still thinking that magical elf is it's very own real person eh? Sorry to tell you that that character is still you! A challenge to the character is a challenge to the player no matter how pretty you wanna dress up the words.
Basically what you are saying here is that you can't tell the difference between yourself and a magical elf running along your computer screen, how very sad for you.
Edit: Btw, I know you think it's hard to move out of fire but I promise you all that is required is to press a button for 2 or 3 seconds.
-----signature-----
“A painter paints his pictures on canvas. But musicians paint their pictures on silence.
We provide the music, and you provide the silence.†~Leopold Stokowski
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
Blizzard: Forgetting how you got from A to B? |
Broken_Kayfabe posted:
Fedup23 posted:
They should have shot for the "in-between". Yknow.. produce something a bit harder than WOTLK and a bit less tedious than Cata. They may have been able to satisfy everyone. Does that sound crazy?
I think they DID shoot for that. My impression of their mindset was that the regulars were for regular players and the heroics for the top players, until they inevitably nerf them (as we all knew they would).
Unfortunately they don't seem to have realized that 90% of the players think they ARE the top players.
It's not a simple problem with a linear solution anyways. There's multiple problems with the system (not the least of which is the fact they went and made pretty much every class simply less fun) that are distorting the situation, magnifying the problems, or both.
I think that making Heroic 5-mans difficult for the "casuals" is a terrible idea and if that was what they were going for then that just sucks. My reasoning is that this means they basically put in a large roadblock for the "casuals" to make sure they never see even normal mode raids or when they do it will all be so far out of date it isn't worth doing.
And why do 5-mans need to be hard? I thought it was raids that were the pinnacle of difficulty for hardcore raiders? Am I wrong on that?
Your last statement is spot on. The classes/roles are not fun to play anymore for the most part. They feel dull and lackluster compared to the pacing of WOTLK and just like the NGE in Star Wars Galaxies, they will never even consider reverting back to pre-Cata mechanics.
-----signature-----
The VNboards are so much fun! Its like my own personal train wreck going 24/7
and noone is actually getting hurt which takes away the guilt of watching.
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
Blizzard: Forgetting how you got from A to B? |
Quazimortal posted:
What a bunch of blah blah blah all to prove you don't know what the fuck you are talking about. Still thinking that magical elf is it's very own real person eh? Sorry to tell you that that character is still you! A challenge to the character is a challenge to the player no matter how pretty you wanna dress up the words.
Basically what you are saying here is that you can't tell the difference between yourself and a magical elf running along your computer screen, how very sad for you.
Edit: Btw, I know you think it's hard to move out of fire but I promise you all that is required is to press a button for 2 or 3 seconds.
Projection? From you? LOL! You're the subliterate dumbass who can't tell the difference between the player and the character, not me. I'm the one trying, more patiently than a mongoloid chimp like you deserves, to explain that they aren't, in fact, the same thing.
And no, a challenge to the character is not the same as a challenge to the player, but because it requires the literacy skills of a third grader or better to understand it, it, like simple math and coherent thought, is a bit beyond your abilities.
Now why don't you waddle your 500lb arse back over to farming the latest and greatest token before your drool shorts out your keyboard, cretin.
-----signature-----
Thanks, but it's been fun
Five more minutes then I'm done!
I've been saying that to myself since
...yesterday.
- from "Has anybody seen my corpse". Man Everquest rocked back in the day...
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Quazimortal Title: The One and Only
Posts: 1,557
Registered: 2004-9-18 21:52:58
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
Blizzard: Forgetting how you got from A to B? |
The more you talk about your character being it's own entity, the more I am convinced you shouldn't have stopped taking your meds. Does your doctor know you broke out of your room to spread your crazy over the internet?
What you see on the screen isn't real life so you should stop pretending to be a magical elf because it only shows how crazy you are.
-----signature-----
“A painter paints his pictures on canvas. But musicians paint their pictures on silence.
We provide the music, and you provide the silence.†~Leopold Stokowski
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
Blizzard: Forgetting how you got from A to B? |
Other than two problems I really don't have any heart burn with the new system. In the old game I would run heroics but not raids. I saw raids as something for the hard core and those with more time than me. I use to do raids but they take up far too much time and in truth were not fun.
I did get a little frustrated with players who were only interested in running a heroic as fast as possible. There was no attempt to plan anything. It was pure hack and slash. I had fun but I also the mental side of things. The new runs are fun and many times I have groups that want to use CC and tactics. It is slightly disappointing that some groups want to hack and slash through but even those are fun.
The two problems I have are related to attempts to force people into heroics. By making two badge systems they are saying, run heroics or just look at the great gear; something you'll never touch. Make the gear cost twice as much but give players not willing to do two hour instances runs a shot.
The second problem is the worse of all. That is orbs. I'm very into crafting. I have 17 players and most have maxed trades. I work hard to get the material; hunting, farming and buying. Some of my players have reached a point where the only way I can advance crafting is to do something I have no desire to do.
We had the same problem with the frozen orbs and they fixed it. You would think they had learned from that mistake. I really expect then to fix this problem. I just wonder how they came to repeat it. They made the same mistake with badges before. Why are the repeating mistakes? Makes you wonder.
-----signature-----
There are three kind of liberals;
Stupid, ignorant or evil
The result is always evil but the intent is not always evil. Not that it makes much difference in the long run.
No one here is exactly as they seem. - G'Kar
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Unstruck  Posts: 260
Registered: 2004-3-24 18:59:13
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
Blizzard: Forgetting how you got from A to B? |
Quazimortal posted:
The more you talk about your character being it's own entity, the more I am convinced you shouldn't have stopped taking your meds. Does your doctor know you broke out of your room to spread your crazy over the internet?
What you see on the screen isn't real life so you should stop pretending to be a magical elf because it only shows how crazy you are.
A character is no more equal to being the player than a corporation is equal to being the business signers. You may shape the entity's destiny, help it grow, and make decisions to influence its progression, but it is NOT you.
The puppeteer isn't his puppets. If you reread his post from that perspective, it makes a lot of sense.
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NukeMage Posts: 346
Registered: 2002-4-7 16:58:45
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
Blizzard: Forgetting how you got from A to B? |
This thread had just turned brutal . . .
It has become something like watching a mentally handicapped person lose game after game of chess to a seasoned pro, but the mentally impaired individual thinks that he is winning at checkers . . .
-----signature-----
I need a new hobby . .
Ten level 85's (one of each class) in WoW
Back to try out the Feb patch in AC
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-Mythril-  Title: International Man of Mythery
Posts: 118
Registered: 2001-1-6 20:42:31
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
Blizzard: Forgetting how you got from A to B? |
quazi take this for what it's worth from a neutral observer. You're getting your ass kicked. shhhhhhh, is my advice.
-----signature-----
Tongue-tied and twisted. Just an earthbound misfit; I.
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Mythphisto- Hunter;
Too many alts to list.
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