Indeed.

Look like you need to return to grade school and brush up on your reading comprehension, Gutter, because I never extended an apology and you claiming to accept an apology that was never extended makes you look like a moron.

However, I see you graduated at the top of your class in Snide school. Well done!

By the way, this is a perfect example of the type of crap I was referring to a few days ago that has contributed greatly to the decline of this board. It is virtually impossible to have a rational discussion about anything here without certain people always falling back on the snide, insulting and condescending tactics they are so well known for.

Learn to ignore them. Then they end up talking to themselves. Since it is all about their egos and their need to feel like they are owning everyone, just let them jerk themselves off and respond to the real posters. This thread was pretty good once the real troll got removed, ignoring the other troll, and this thread actually has some good conversation. What the board should be like.

 

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Oh where to begin . .

1.) Any comparisons between the leveling and gear acquisition systems in WoW and AC is difficult at best. Comparing a level 150 character and 275 character in AC and saying it is proof that "skill" allows the lower to kill the higher is approximately the same as saying a lvl 85 in WoW, with ilevel 359, can kill an ilevel 391. Yes, it can and does happen. However, the odds are still significantly stacked in the higher (gear/level) characters favor. (Since it might of been a while since some people have actually played AC, there are these things at high levels called Augmentations and Luminescence that add great strength to high level characters and operate independent of the traditional leveling system).

However, comparing a lvl 84 character to a lvl 85 character at ilevel 359 in WoW is approximately equal to comparing a lvl 75 in AC to a lvl 150 in AC. Sure, the lower can still kill the higher but frankly the higher must be either completely inept or not even trying; No amount of "skill" on the part of the lower level toon will compensate for the stat imbalance assuming the higher (level/gear) opponent is even semi competent.

2.) Very low level toons from either game are not going to kill anything but other low level toons. In regards to AC, any theoretical arguement about buffs, tinked armor, weapons and the like ignores the fact that those characters still will not make the "skill checks" to land any spells or hits on any medium to high level toons.

3.) Good PvP gear in WoW is easier to acquire (and keep!) than good PvP gear on ACDT. In WoW, nearly the best stuff can be gained just over a course of time, even if one were to lose 9/10 of their battleground/arena fights. Decent stuff is earned even quicker and does not even require a single win (just a lot of time). Good players on good teams gear up even quicker. Top tier suits of equipment on DT take a much longer time to acquire unless you have connection($), due to the random nature of loot from top tier loot chests and monsters. A decent suit of at least major cantrips in AC can usually be acquired in about as much time as starter PvP gear can be acquired in WoW, again depending on friends/connections since loot in AC is generally giveable and nonbinding. Then one has to make sure they do not die so much as to end up losing said armor.

4.) The "best" players in either game have the top tier gear, skill and levels/character advancement. In either AC or WoW, the player that can kill the most other players will have all of these things. Maybe others will be a sliver better in one catagory or another, but that player will always be looking to improve all three of these areas whenever possible and will at least meet (level cap/alternate advancement) or exceed (gear/skill) the vast majority of other players. The edge in gear will help over come other similiarly skilled players and the edge in skill will overcome other similiarly geared players.

5.) Friends and guildmates matter MUCH more in AC than in WoW. One does not even need to be in a guild to get to the top of the PvP ladder in WoW, though it can help to be guildmates with your rated arena/battleground teammates. On DT, if you are not in a good guild you will be fodder for all of the other players who are in strong guilds.

6.) Players tend to play with less "skill" in WoW than players on ACDT, but both games require a honed skill set. This is mostly due to the fact dying in WoW PvP has almost no real penalty where in AC you can potentially permanently lose your good equipment or at the least lose items of some value. This does NOT however change the fact that to play either game at maximum potential one requires a much higher than average skill set than the common player.

7.) Comparing "1v1" fights as the benchmark for PvP in either game is stupid. All fights worth any significance (rankings, points, ect) in WoW take place in at least small teams if not full sized battlegrounds. Fights involving important hunting areas or luminescence areas on DT usually involve more than a 1v1 fight, and while odds can definitely be overcome in AC it sure as hell helps to have numbers on your side.

8.) Some people on these message boards are never wrong, no matter what. Even if they post something that is in complete contradiction to a previous statement or even if they switch sides in an arguement, they are still in the right any and all of those times

 

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Regardless, let's get the thread back on track. Another reason why I see a draw toward the game is that the events and heroics from your first Guild Wars character 'transfer' to Guild Wars 2 in the form of the Hall of Monuments. Seen more than a few players try to rush these achievements before the newer game comes out.

Here's a guide from another player that makes note of it:

http://dragonseason.com/Home/tabid/55/EntryId/43/How-to-Easily-collect-30-points-in-Hall-of-Monuments.aspx

It would be rather cool to see your avatar in the form of a statue outside of Stormwind, for example, if there was ever a World of Warcraft 2. It's a clever marketing ploy, if nothing else, to get players to buy the older expansion packs before they become obsolete.

 

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Honestly what is drawing me to check out GW2 is the hype surrounding it, and I found that their trailers and interviews about the game itself seem to have gone very well. I am looking for something just a bit different than what is currently out there, and while I do not think I will ever get into another game and play it off and on for years like I have done with AC and WoW I think GW2 will at the least be playable for a couple of months.

I am approaching it as if it were a typical console or pc game; if i gain nearly as much enjoyment and playtime out of it as, let's say, Skyrim then I will be more than happy with my purchase.

If I play it for a few days and then uninstall, well it would suck but it would not mean the end of the world to me.

 

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Thanks for the link Arden. I am definitely going to put that information to good use.I am currently re familiarizing myself with GW, playing through the first 3 or 4 campaigns, while waiting for GW2 to come out.

'MMOS have always been about skills/gear, not about skills exclusively': The keyword you missed here is "exclusively". Exclusively implies excluding something, which does not apply here. In this case, a skilled player must still take their gear and/or the other player's gear into consideration when facing another skilled player, *regardless* of how skilled they are. Even if they're playing naked/no gear on in Asheron's Call.

Let's say for the sake of argument that you have 2 perfectly, equally skilled players with mismatched gear (one with inferior gear). Well, the geared player would win most fights since MMOs are about skills/gear and not about skills exclusively. I rest my case tho, cuz this argument is getting annoying to read about lol.

The word you missed was "always"..

 

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Don't even waste your time, Spirit. As Nukemage so aptly put it, "some people on these message boards are never wrong, no matter what", and there is absolutely no point in trying to have a discussion with one of them.

Even in AC1, the "geared" character will have more health, more mana, and also more resistances. Therefore the "geared" character has an advantage, just like in any other MMORPG.

Same for GW2. All the info we got says that the game will not be "gear centric", but gear will still have its importance. There are stats on every piece of gear in GW2, therefore it WILL have an influence on both PvE and PvP.

Some people seem to think GW2 will be a sort of nirvana where you can fight a fully geared max level character with a naked level 1 and have a chance to win. For those, the reality check will be harsh.

 

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