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Author Topic: Trayvon Martin was punching Zimmerman in the head [Locked]
Ardenwolfe  2 stars
Title: All Knowing Grammar Police
Posts: 499
Registered: 2002-12-11 14:47:24
Yukishiro1 posted:

It doesn't really matter. If the kid started the physical fight and was sitting on top of the guy punching him in the face the guy can't be blamed for shooting him. The guy is obviously a racist scumbag idiot but that doesn't mean he can't defend himself, even if he did bait the guy into attacking him.

If you are on the ground getting punched in the face repeatedly that qualifies as the risk of serious bodily injury or death in my book.



I suppose that's a question for the jury to decide. But, remember, Zimmerman put himself in that situation. There's no question about that.

 

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Sanctimonious know-it-all.
Yukishiro1  4 stars
Posts: 3,243
Registered: 2002-9-20 23:52:57
Doesn't matter. He probably used a racial slur and that caused the kid to flip out and start attacking him. Doesn't matter. You dont' give up a self defense claim just because you were a racist douchebag and called someone a name first.


The important thing is who started the physical fight and whether the kid was really sitting on top of him punching him in the face repeatedly. In which case Zimmerman is a huge pussy in addition to being a huge douche. But not a murderer.
reesescups  4 stars
Title: //Captain America
Posts: 2,537
Registered: 2003-5-26 14:45:53
What situation did Zimmerman put himself into? Wasn't he a guard? Isn't he suppose to put himself into situations?

 

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"man up, you wimp." - Groucho48
"I'm not racist at all." - dae_trist
Groucho48  3 stars
Posts: 821
Registered: 2003-10-22 03:00:14
I mentioned this case a couple days ago and asked for comments. No one responded. However, it seems to have some bearing in this situation...


Quote:

Trevor Dooley's attorney portrayed him Wednesday as a 69-year-old man with fused discs in his neck who feared for his life when set upon by his 41-year-old neighbor, six inches taller and 70 pounds heavier.

Dooley is protected by Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law, his attorney argued, firing in self-defense when the most mundane of neighbor disputes turned violent.
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Arthur, now 15, said he was visiting friends in the Twin Lakes neighborhood. He took his skateboard to the park and asked permission to practice trick moves from James, who was shooting hoops with his daughter. The only others in the park were a couple playing tennis.

But the boy then heard a voice from across the street. It was Dooley, outside his garage, shouting that he should get off the court, that there was a no-skateboarding sign. The boy stopped.

He heard James call out to Dooley, "Show me the sign."

Michael Scott Whitt, practicing tennis serves nearby with his wife, Michelle, stopped to watch.

They testified that Dooley briefly went into his garage, then started across the street with a dark object sticking out of his waistband. They said James threw his hands up and said, "Oh, come on."

Dooley and James argued over letting the boy skate until Dooley lifted his shirt and said, "F--- you," the Whitts testified.

They said Dooley turned and started home, but James caught up with him. "Mr. James said, 'Don't flash a weapon,' something like that," Michelle Whitt testified.

Then, she said, Dooley pulled out the gun and James grabbed his hand. The men struggled, they fell to the ground, and James ended up on his knees as Dooley lay on his side. They still wrestled for the gun.

The gun fired.



http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts/criminal/witnesses-dispute-trevor-dooleys-stand-your-ground-claim-in-valrico/1206308

In that case, similarly to the Zimmerman case, the police did not make an arrest at first, because of the Stand Your Ground law. But, there was a local outcry and charges were eventually made. In this case, there apparently had been several arguments about the skateboarding issue between these two guys previously.

So, a fairly similar situation. A local busybody with a gun gets involved in a trivial, non-criminal non-threatening situation and shoots someone to death. In a civil trial ( I think it's the civil trial, it's kind of confusing), the victim's daughter testified that her father was, in fact, on top of Dooley, holding him down. Be interesting to see the verdict.

What do you guys think the verdict should be in this case? I think something like criminally negligent homicide would be suitable.

 

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“Science is like sex: sometimes something useful comes out, but that is not the reason we are doing it.” – Richard Feynman
Ardenwolfe  2 stars
Title: All Knowing Grammar Police
Posts: 499
Registered: 2002-12-11 14:47:24
Even so, I find it unlikely that a 140-pound teenager could beat a 240-pound man to death with his bare fists. That's a real stretch in my book. Hopefully, the Feds will do what's right before this gets even uglier.

 

-----signature-----
Sanctimonious know-it-all.
Groucho48  3 stars
Posts: 821
Registered: 2003-10-22 03:00:14
reesescups posted:

What situation did Zimmerman put himself into? Wasn't he a guard? Isn't he suppose to put himself into situations?



No. He's not a guard. He is a volunteer in an unofficial organization who disregarded instructions from the dispatcher to not follow martin but to wait for the police. He very definitely is NOT supposed to put himself in situations.

 

-----signature-----
“Science is like sex: sometimes something useful comes out, but that is not the reason we are doing it.” – Richard Feynman
Ardenwolfe  2 stars
Title: All Knowing Grammar Police
Posts: 499
Registered: 2002-12-11 14:47:24
Correct. We also know that his own neighborhood complained to the police about him. He was a self-appointed neighborhood watch captain or some nonsense like that.

Smells vigilante gone wrong to me.

 

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Sanctimonious know-it-all.
DemonicXH  3 stars
Title: Camelot Vault Staff
News Editor

Posts: 584
Registered: 2003-12-1 08:14:17
The police report states that Zimmerman had a bloody nose and gash on his head, but do we know if there were any injuries to Martin - obviously outside the gunshot wound to the chest?
Allstarslacker  3 stars
Posts: 757
Registered: 2006-5-23 20:09:28
The kid looked pretty athletic, and I'll go out on a limb and guess he was probably more familiar with physical confrontations than the want to be knight in shining armor.

I have no trouble believing he was beating that guy's ass.

At 17 you might be a boy mentally, but you're a man physically.
Yukishiro1  4 stars
Posts: 3,243
Registered: 2002-9-20 23:52:57
Ardenwolfe posted:

Even so, I find it unlikely that a 140-pound teenager could beat a 240-pound man to death with his bare fists.



That's not the test. You don't have to just sit there and take it and hope you don't die.


I am against gun happy idiots as much as the next guy but you can't expect someone to just lie there and get punched in the face. One stray punch is one thing. Repeatedly beating someone in the face when they are on the ground is totally different.

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