Date Posted:4/3/12 10:14amSubject:
Sometimes I want to ask God...
.-Vega-. posted:
FWH-Techumseh posted:
Acid233 posted: Lets see what is more plausible?
A flying spaghetti man in the sky that created everything or everything just happened by coincidence after billions of years of fucking nothingness.
Common sense dictates coincidence since their are trillions upon trillions of planets. Obviously one of these is going to harbor life. It is statistics. Not only should their be at least one intelligent species but their should be millions upon millions around the universe.
You have to extremely naive and self centered if you actually believe humans are the only intelligent species in the universe. Mathematically speaking this notion is absurdity at its finest and literally impossible to be true.
Funny you should say that. God is a mathemtician! Don't take my word for it though. How bout a High Physics Nobel Laureate, Professor Steven Weinberg.
"•writing in the journal "Scientific American", reflects on:
how surprising it is that the laws of nature and the initial conditions of the universe should allow for the existence of beings who could observe it. Life as we know it would be impossible if any one of several physical quantities had slightly different values.
Although Weinberg is a self-described agnostic, he cannot but be astounded by the extent of the fine-tuning. He goes on to describe how a beryllium isotope having the minuscule half life of 0.0000000000000001 seconds must find and absorb a helium nucleus in that split of time before decaying. This occurs only because of a totally unexpected, exquisitely precise, energy match between the two nuclei. If this did not occur there would be none of the heavier elements. No carbon, no nitrogen, no life. Our universe would be composed of hydrogen and helium. But this is not the end of Professor Weinberg's wonder at our well-tuned universe. He continues:
One constant does seem to require an incredible fine-tuning -- The existence of life of any kind seems to require a cancellation between different contributions to the vacuum energy, accurate to about 120 decimal places.
This means that if the energies of the Big Bang were, in arbitrary units, not:
100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000,
but instead:
100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000001,
there would be no life of any sort in the entire universe because as Weinberg states:
the universe either would go through a complete cycle of expansion and contraction before life could arise, or would expand so rapidly that no galaxies or stars could form."
That's just one example. The Earth is so finely balanced that to suggest that it was coincidental is not rational. And I actually agree that we aren't the only living beings on Earth. Turn on the news every day. If you were God wouldn't you cover your bets and have many Earths? We're a damn mess!
Pure win. Gonna re-read this later til I memorize it.
This is not a win at all. It is interesting the think about no doubt, but the probability of an all knowing God creating everything has a much lower probability of occurring then the requirement of the cancellations between different contributions to the vacuum energy. If you truthfully think that God existing has a better chance of occurring then this you need to re-evaluate your intellectual capacity.
Date Posted:4/3/12 10:14amSubject:
Sometimes I want to ask God...
if God is everywhere.. nevermind.. too easy
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When did you lose yours (virginity)?
I lost mine when I was 9 to a pit bull named Margaret.
Snackpack Genocide- level 256+ T Pain- level 210+
Luvyoulongtime- level 234+
Date Posted:4/3/12 10:15amSubject:
Sometimes I want to ask God...
Vodka_Tonic posted: I'm glad you mentioned this. No I have not read that book, although it sounds very interesting and I'll definitely have to read up on it. Yes, science is always changing indefinitely. There is always new evidence being discovered to support theories and claims in science. As for God and Religion, there really isn't evidence being discovered that explains in basic terms "our existence".
As for time, that is a subject in itself. Time is a term we've created to explain duration in which events occur. According to Einstein's general theory of relativity, during an event horizon in space, space is basically bent. If someone were to observe the point of no return into a black hole time would literally slow down infinitely. To the observer you would see the object slowly getting closer to the black hole. It would appear this way infinitely, but in reality that object would already be broken down and gravity would have engulfed that object. Like you said, because the universe is expanding, space is expanding, and time is stretched out over an infinite number of light years. It may be impossible for us too see the creation point of the universe.
Now I don't want to dwell too far into this subject because it will lead to science fiction. If we could bend space and time ourselves then theoretically we could travel from point A to point B through a wormhole and reach the far ends of the universe.
Yes we can marvel at the wonder of the universe and study the intricate substances that make up matter. Will the beauty we see in everything around us make me question the existence of god?
Simply no. Only because I believe the idea of God is something humans created in their most primitive being to cope with our unexplainable existence.
I actually agree with you. No amount of facts or figures would change your mind. There really is no substitute for Faith. My first name is Thomas and I'm too much like the Disciple. I need the science to strengthen my faith. So to me it's comforting to see that the more we know the more that's confirmed. Granted in my eyes, not yours.
Unfortunately, Christians are to blame for people not believing in Christ than Satan. I get frustrated because they spend so much of their time locked in their elaborate, climate controlled buildings waiting for people to just show up and ask what this 'Christ thing' is all about. Most hide their children away from society either thru home schooling or Christian schools. I coach Football and Basketball. I get an opportunity to share my faith and I state up front that throughout the year that's what I'll be doing. So people can come or go as they please. You can only reach someone once they get to know you. God knows I'm not perfect. And my life is pretty messed up right now. But I still trust in Him to help me make it right.
But to get to your point about traveling bending space and time I think that is one school of thought. I have a theory about Angels. They couldn't have body's like ours and travel back and forth between Heaven and Earth thru a worm hole. They would have to be some crazy looking creatures. Hence the reason that whenever they would appear the first thing they would say would be 'Fear not!'
What if they are bound to some of the same laws of nature as we are? And what if they mastered another means of travel? The Ancient Aliens so to speak. Maybe they aren't able to visit as often because the universe is expanding and each time they would have to travel further to get here. That could explain why bad things happen I suppose.
But the bible says that God knows what we need and has it on the way so that it will always arrive on time. Scientifically, the only way He could accomplish this is He must be able to see the future. Maybe He figured out how to bend Time? I know a lot of Christians would find it sacrilege for me to suggest that maybe God has to obey the same laws of nature, space, time etc that we do. The scientist in me finds Him more intriguing if that's the case. And my faith in Him and His plan is just as strong as any others.
Date Posted:4/3/12 10:15amSubject:
Sometimes I want to ask God...
Acid233 posted:
FWH-Techumseh posted:
Acid233 posted: Lets see what is more plausible?
A flying spaghetti man in the sky that created everything or everything just happened by coincidence after billions of years of fucking nothingness.
Common sense dictates coincidence since their are trillions upon trillions of planets. Obviously one of these is going to harbor life. It is statistics. Not only should their be at least one intelligent species but their should be millions upon millions around the universe.
You have to extremely naive and self centered if you actually believe humans are the only intelligent species in the universe. Mathematically speaking this notion is absurdity at its finest and literally impossible to be true.
Funny you should say that. God is a mathemtician! Don't take my word for it though. How bout a High Physics Nobel Laureate, Professor Steven Weinberg.
"•writing in the journal "Scientific American", reflects on:
how surprising it is that the laws of nature and the initial conditions of the universe should allow for the existence of beings who could observe it. Life as we know it would be impossible if any one of several physical quantities had slightly different values.
Although Weinberg is a self-described agnostic, he cannot but be astounded by the extent of the fine-tuning. He goes on to describe how a beryllium isotope having the minuscule half life of 0.0000000000000001 seconds must find and absorb a helium nucleus in that split of time before decaying. This occurs only because of a totally unexpected, exquisitely precise, energy match between the two nuclei. If this did not occur there would be none of the heavier elements. No carbon, no nitrogen, no life. Our universe would be composed of hydrogen and helium. But this is not the end of Professor Weinberg's wonder at our well-tuned universe. He continues:
One constant does seem to require an incredible fine-tuning -- The existence of life of any kind seems to require a cancellation between different contributions to the vacuum energy, accurate to about 120 decimal places.
This means that if the energies of the Big Bang were, in arbitrary units, not:
100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000,
but instead:
100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000001,
there would be no life of any sort in the entire universe because as Weinberg states:
the universe either would go through a complete cycle of expansion and contraction before life could arise, or would expand so rapidly that no galaxies or stars could form."
That's just one example. The Earth is so finely balanced that to suggest that it was coincidental is not rational. And I actually agree that we aren't the only living beings on Earth. Turn on the news every day. If you were God wouldn't you cover your bets and have many Earths? We're a damn mess!
Very well thought out response. I agree with you that it is a pretty big coincidence but the question still remains. Answer me this then.
Where are these scientists explaining the chances of an all powerful being somehow coming to existence and creating everything out of thin air? You keep spouting these scientists and their explanation of the probability of life of being extremely low, but what about the explanation of the probability of an all knowing powerful being that somehow came out of nothingness and is the embodiment of everything? is this .0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 to infinity chance of occurring? Where is this math? I would love to see it.
No matter what, the probability of our universe coming to existence the way we think it came to existence has a significantly better probability of occuring then a flying spaghetti man that appeared out of nowhere.
See what I did their? I can preach the same thing you have been preaching just the other way around.
There*
Who said there was no existence before -our- universe? You're being such a blockhead that you can't think outside the box in relation to the idea of infinity. Are there sentient beings beside the inhabitants of Earth? Our current knowledge it seems like it would be a rare occurrence, but very likely. Is there a creator? This is a harder question, you're not talking about our celestial peers, you're talking about something or someone that could exist outside everything we know. So lets try to be less of judgmental prick about what you will never or disprove in this lifetime.
Check this out. You may have seen it already, but when you zoom in all the way and work your way back out, it gives you a weak idea of infinity. Our universe could be comparative to an atom in something greater. Scientists claim we don't have all the answers, I'd be surprised if we had a hundredth.
Date Posted:4/3/12 10:15amSubject:
Sometimes I want to ask God...
FWH-Techumseh posted:
Vodka_Tonic posted: I'm glad you mentioned this. No I have not read that book, although it sounds very interesting and I'll definitely have to read up on it. Yes, science is always changing indefinitely. There is always new evidence being discovered to support theories and claims in science. As for God and Religion, there really isn't evidence being discovered that explains in basic terms "our existence".
As for time, that is a subject in itself. Time is a term we've created to explain duration in which events occur. According to Einstein's general theory of relativity, during an event horizon in space, space is basically bent. If someone were to observe the point of no return into a black hole time would literally slow down infinitely. To the observer you would see the object slowly getting closer to the black hole. It would appear this way infinitely, but in reality that object would already be broken down and gravity would have engulfed that object. Like you said, because the universe is expanding, space is expanding, and time is stretched out over an infinite number of light years. It may be impossible for us too see the creation point of the universe.
Now I don't want to dwell too far into this subject because it will lead to science fiction. If we could bend space and time ourselves then theoretically we could travel from point A to point B through a wormhole and reach the far ends of the universe.
Yes we can marvel at the wonder of the universe and study the intricate substances that make up matter. Will the beauty we see in everything around us make me question the existence of god?
Simply no. Only because I believe the idea of God is something humans created in their most primitive being to cope with our unexplainable existence.
I actually agree with you. No amount of facts or figures would change your mind. There really is no substitute for Faith. My first name is Thomas and I'm too much like the Disciple. I need the science to strengthen my faith. So to me it's comforting to see that the more we know the more that's confirmed. Granted in my eyes, not yours.
Unfortunately, Christians are to blame for people not believing in Christ than Satan. I get frustrated because they spend so much of their time locked in their elaborate, climate controlled buildings waiting for people to just show up and ask what this 'Christ thing' is all about. Most hide their children away from society either thru home schooling or Christian schools. I coach Football and Basketball. I get an opportunity to share my faith and I state up front that throughout the year that's what I'll be doing. So people can come or go as they please. You can only reach someone once they get to know you. God knows I'm not perfect. And my life is pretty messed up right now. But I still trust in Him to help me make it right.
But to get to your point about traveling bending space and time I think that is one school of thought. I have a theory about Angels. They couldn't have body's like ours and travel back and forth between Heaven and Earth thru a worm hole. They would have to be some crazy looking creatures. Hence the reason that whenever they would appear the first thing they would say would be 'Fear not!'
What if they are bound to some of the same laws of nature as we are? And what if they mastered another means of travel? The Ancient Aliens so to speak. Maybe they aren't able to visit as often because the universe is expanding and each time they would have to travel further to get here. That could explain why bad things happen I suppose.
But the bible says that God knows what we need and has it on the way so that it will always arrive on time. Scientifically, the only way He could accomplish this is He must be able to see the future. Maybe He figured out how to bend Time? I know a lot of Christians would find it sacrilege for me to suggest that maybe God has to obey the same laws of nature, space, time etc that we do. The scientist in me finds Him more intriguing if that's the case. And my faith in Him and His plan is just as strong as any others.
It's not that no amount of facts or figures would change my mind. My point was that there are no facts or figures to change my mind. Space is real, gravity is real, everything in the cosmos is physically real. Angels, gods, and just about everything in the bible isn't physically real.
There is no room to grow with religion. Humans have a short life span, why wait for god.
Date Posted:4/3/12 10:15amSubject:
Sometimes I want to ask God...
Krugwulf posted:
Acid233 posted:
FWH-Techumseh posted:
Acid233 posted: Lets see what is more plausible?
A flying spaghetti man in the sky that created everything or everything just happened by coincidence after billions of years of fucking nothingness.
Common sense dictates coincidence since their are trillions upon trillions of planets. Obviously one of these is going to harbor life. It is statistics. Not only should their be at least one intelligent species but their should be millions upon millions around the universe.
You have to extremely naive and self centered if you actually believe humans are the only intelligent species in the universe. Mathematically speaking this notion is absurdity at its finest and literally impossible to be true.
Funny you should say that. God is a mathemtician! Don't take my word for it though. How bout a High Physics Nobel Laureate, Professor Steven Weinberg.
"•writing in the journal "Scientific American", reflects on:
how surprising it is that the laws of nature and the initial conditions of the universe should allow for the existence of beings who could observe it. Life as we know it would be impossible if any one of several physical quantities had slightly different values.
Although Weinberg is a self-described agnostic, he cannot but be astounded by the extent of the fine-tuning. He goes on to describe how a beryllium isotope having the minuscule half life of 0.0000000000000001 seconds must find and absorb a helium nucleus in that split of time before decaying. This occurs only because of a totally unexpected, exquisitely precise, energy match between the two nuclei. If this did not occur there would be none of the heavier elements. No carbon, no nitrogen, no life. Our universe would be composed of hydrogen and helium. But this is not the end of Professor Weinberg's wonder at our well-tuned universe. He continues:
One constant does seem to require an incredible fine-tuning -- The existence of life of any kind seems to require a cancellation between different contributions to the vacuum energy, accurate to about 120 decimal places.
This means that if the energies of the Big Bang were, in arbitrary units, not:
100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000,
but instead:
100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000001,
there would be no life of any sort in the entire universe because as Weinberg states:
the universe either would go through a complete cycle of expansion and contraction before life could arise, or would expand so rapidly that no galaxies or stars could form."
That's just one example. The Earth is so finely balanced that to suggest that it was coincidental is not rational. And I actually agree that we aren't the only living beings on Earth. Turn on the news every day. If you were God wouldn't you cover your bets and have many Earths? We're a damn mess!
Very well thought out response. I agree with you that it is a pretty big coincidence but the question still remains. Answer me this then.
Where are these scientists explaining the chances of an all powerful being somehow coming to existence and creating everything out of thin air? You keep spouting these scientists and their explanation of the probability of life of being extremely low, but what about the explanation of the probability of an all knowing powerful being that somehow came out of nothingness and is the embodiment of everything? is this .0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 to infinity chance of occurring? Where is this math? I would love to see it.
No matter what, the probability of our universe coming to existence the way we think it came to existence has a significantly better probability of occuring then a flying spaghetti man that appeared out of nowhere.
See what I did their? I can preach the same thing you have been preaching just the other way around.
There*
Who said there was no existence before -our- universe? You're being such a blockhead that you can't think outside the box in relation to the idea of infinity. Are there sentient beings beside the inhabitants of Earth? Our current knowledge it seems like it would be a rare occurrence, but very likely. Is there a creator? This is a harder question, you're not talking about our celestial peers, you're talking about something or someone that could exist outside everything we know. So lets try to be less of judgmental prick about what you will never or disprove in this lifetime.
Check this out. You may have seen it already, but when you zoom in all the way and work your way back out, it gives you a weak idea of infinity. Our universe could be comparative to an atom in something greater. Scientists claim we don't have all the answers, I'd be surprised if we had a hundredth.
Do you realize how hypocritical this statement is?
I never said I can disprove the notion of God existing but I also know I can never prove it just like you can't prove it as well.
How was I being a judgmental prick? I was merely stating the same basic things you were stating but in a different way to demonstrate how absurd you sounded. If I am a judgmental prick then you sir are one as well. The truth is simple. We both have no clue how we came to be and will most likely never know.
Date Posted:4/3/12 10:15amSubject:
Sometimes I want to ask God...
FWH-Techumseh posted:
Vodka_Tonic posted: I'm glad you mentioned this. No I have not read that book, although it sounds very interesting and I'll definitely have to read up on it. Yes, science is always changing indefinitely. There is always new evidence being discovered to support theories and claims in science. As for God and Religion, there really isn't evidence being discovered that explains in basic terms "our existence".
As for time, that is a subject in itself. Time is a term we've created to explain duration in which events occur. According to Einstein's general theory of relativity, during an event horizon in space, space is basically bent. If someone were to observe the point of no return into a black hole time would literally slow down infinitely. To the observer you would see the object slowly getting closer to the black hole. It would appear this way infinitely, but in reality that object would already be broken down and gravity would have engulfed that object. Like you said, because the universe is expanding, space is expanding, and time is stretched out over an infinite number of light years. It may be impossible for us too see the creation point of the universe.
1.Now I don't want to dwell too far into this subject because it will lead to science fiction. If we could bend space and time ourselves then theoretically we could travel from point A to point B through a wormhole and reach the far ends of the universe.
Yes we can marvel at the wonder of the universe and study the intricate substances that make up matter. Will the beauty we see in everything around us make me question the existence of god?
Simply no. Only because I believe the idea of God is something humans created in their most primitive being to cope with our unexplainable existence.
I actually agree with you. No amount of facts or figures would change your mind. There really is no substitute for Faith. My first name is Thomas and I'm too much like the Disciple. 2. I need the science to strengthen my faith. So to me it's comforting to see that the more we know the more that's confirmed. Granted in my eyes, not yours.
3. Unfortunately, Christians are to blame for people not believing in Christ than Satan. 4.I get frustrated because they spend so much of their time locked in their elaborate, climate controlled buildings waiting for people to just show up and ask what this 'Christ thing' is all about. Most hide their children away from society either thru home schooling or Christian schools. I coach Football and Basketball. I get an opportunity to share my faith and I state up front that throughout the year that's what I'll be doing. So people can come or go as they please. You can only reach someone once they get to know you. God knows I'm not perfect. And my life is pretty messed up right now. 5. But I still trust in Him to help me make it right.
6. But to get to your point about traveling bending space and time I think that is one school of thought. I have a theory about Angels. They couldn't have body's like ours and travel back and forth between Heaven and Earth thru a worm hole. They would have to be some crazy looking creatures. Hence the reason that whenever they would appear the first thing they would say would be 'Fear not!'
What if they are bound to some of the same laws of nature as we are? And what if they mastered another means of travel? The Ancient Aliens so to speak. Maybe they aren't able to visit as often because the universe is expanding and each time they would have to travel further to get here. That could explain why bad things happen I suppose.
7. But the bible says that God knows what we need and has it on the way so that it will always arrive on time. Scientifically, the only way He could accomplish this is He must be able to see the future. Maybe He figured out how to bend Time? I know a lot of Christians would find it sacrilege for me to suggest that maybe God has to obey the same laws of nature, space, time etc that we do. The scientist in me finds Him more intriguing if that's the case. And my faith in Him and His plan is just as strong as any others.
1. Orson Scott Card
2.It's not faith if you have evidence to back it up.. That's not an opinion, it's just the way it is..
3.There has been atheism as long as there has been theism. Don't take credit where you don't deserve it..
4. There is actually a movement in the Catholic religion to evangelize the word of god.. I know, because my mom's part of it.. It's annoying and always comes off as an underhanded slap in the face..
5.I love how people always split up the credit that they deserve wholly with God.. it always seems humorous to me.
6. lolol.. wow
7.You're not a scientist.. not even close.. a scientist uses objective evidence to come to an unbiased determination.. I can tell by this small entry that all your realizations are tainted.. good fight, bro
-----signature-----
When did you lose yours (virginity)?
I lost mine when I was 9 to a pit bull named Margaret.
Snackpack Genocide- level 256+ T Pain- level 210+
Luvyoulongtime- level 234+
