I would really live to but my 2 cents in, but I just can't bring myself to read all this. So I'll just agree with op

 

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How is this any different from Dual wield users having to spec in 1 hand lines to max their damage? Ask a ranger about having to spec in 1 hand line or an infiltrator...

Well, infiltrator is a bad example (LOL spec points) but ask a zerker or sb or nightshade...

 

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Zerkers don't spec shield (or any 4th line) so i don't see why light tanks need to be included. Assassins are a different beast, and simply not the topic of discussion. What's being compared is different realms 2h mechanics and the bigger disadvantage at low RR.

Sorry that this topic is not about assassins.

 

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there are a few differences to dual wield. especially if you look how that classes are build and the dw stuff is working.
- you got DW / LA in all realms, so nobody is suffering "extra pain" from it when facing his counter part because they got the same mechanism.
- each of the classes got the same amount of skill lines to train in when performing the same job / play style
- dw+1h offers more then just wasting your points into it. gain access to more styles, bypass defense, extra item slot for sc in compare to all 2h weapons.


but in the end i also would say that the way how DW/LA works together with 1h should also looked at. with the focus to remove the huge benefit high rr players gain over low rr because of this. especially on assassins that is huge. with every gained rr you can downgrade stealth, 1h and poison, this is more or less like a extra level up on every RR. but as already said, that's another topic.

Ok well to that arguement Hib and Alb are in the same Boat, Hibs don't HAVE to spec in 1 hand line but that means they also can't go in testudo mode and pull out a shield and expect to do any dps if they don't spec something into the line. Sure albs are forced to but the fact of the matter is hibs and albs both split spec because they understand the importance of being able to use sword/board effectively.





Gained styles are useless, as your test/formulas have shown to use styles in 1 hand line rather than DW line, you are gimping your damage. Bypass defense doesn't come close to matching the benefit of 2 hand bonus or the concepts of not firing someones reactive proc. Item slot for SC is offset by the need to have to template 2 skill lines for 1 style line (base and advanced spec lines). Of course this has reprocussions on albs who need 2 lines but only 1 weapon out when using 2 hand.

 

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It's shocking that people are even taking this conversation seriously. But since it's getting a bit out there let's review...

1) when facing higher lvl pve encounters both polearm and twohand users deal lesser damage because of the lack within their 1h spec.

Who cares???? In pve Paladins have always been gods. The conclusion was that a paladin dealt 90% damage. Omg what a travesty.

2) the same effect is there when leveling up a 2h or polearm character.

Again who cares. PvE is easy. Even if the ridiculous claim of 33% slower was somehow quantifiable ..,when you throw in all the other variables (***endurance usage alone***) into the mix there's no way you can even suggest making a change based on this garbage.

3) when doing rvr as a low rr paladin or armsman you also get a negative effect because of double spec mechanism.

really? Being lower RR is a bit of a hardship? Gosh, what an insight. I guess that stealthers that respec their stealth or dual wielders that change their weapon spec every realm rank should be qqing as well.

4) double specing has not a single positive effect on the user.

again what an insight. Not being able to spec 50 everything and have access to every spec line in the game is rough.

don't get me wrong, i am not calling for a over all damage increase on that lines or a huge buff. the only thing that i think is really important here is a huge reduction of all that negative effects. so how that could be done?

umm in effect yes, yes you are. You are asking that the challenges (if you can even call them that) for some classes be removed or reduced without any examination whatsoever of the benefits that those classes enjoy that other 2-hand classes do not.

Neither of these 2 classes should be in line for any kind of melee damage boosts. Particularly when the argument to getting it revolves heavily around PVE and would just spillover to negatively imbalance RVR.

 

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You might complicate it for no good reason - it could be an idea to let the actual performance decide(in game - not "math wise"/"paper daoc".

Meaning, Armsmen have the edge, regarding melee dps, compared to Heroes and Warriors(yes, even at low rr) - if good enough template & spec.


Paladins need something, but it's not really extra melee-dps, and even not extra "pure" melee defence, but rather somewhat more utility in their magic line(somewhat better group-utility that might be).

(eating Thanes alive, on a rr4 Paladin - and struggeling Vs. medium/high rr Paladins on my highest rr Thane - and I'm just a "rather good Paladin player", and more of a "darn good Thane player"


Increasing dps and/or defence of Armsmen and Paladins, won't be good for the balance, wouldn't you say?

One idea could be to lower the dps, of those two classes and then allow them to the same way of speccing(as Midgardians, for example) - but I rather have the uniqueness - and I suspect most rr3+ Arms/Pallys would rather keep their dps advantage, wouldn't you?

 

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Plate also offers a bonus to reduction to bolts ~

 

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since you can't parry or evade from behind you as a heavy tank then that offers no benefit when you are being peeled off by the enemy tank. that's why id rather take the plate abs/af over 0% parry/evade any day of the week.

 

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Password is right.

 

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