Hero evade and warrior parry is supposed to make up for the abs difference...

 

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Laughable.

 

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I have a rank 9 armsman,rank 7 warrior and a deleted hero my shortly after playing him for a few days ....


IMO Armsman are the best heavy tank in the game and they have the best RR5 WHILE in combat, don't forget you can just shift-right click the negative effect away after the rr5 wears off, tehe.

Defenders rage + friar endo redux = stupid powerful you could even sprint and spam it all day and never run out of endo try doing the same on a hero or warrior.

The double spec crap means null at high RR you can still max parry,shield,and retain max weapon spec.

Armsman can spec any dmg type,wear plate and have the lowest endo high growth rate anytime style out of all the tanks.

 

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you got plate, you have no right to complain about anything!

 

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i will agree on one condition, you make armsmen wear leather. thank you and have a nice day.

 

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Albion gets the plate armor advantage for a reason...

 

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first i really do not want to make a love patch for paladin and or armsman. what i am suggesting here is only reducing the negative effect of double specing a bit on low realm ranks. on high rr there is nearly no difference to the current system. and for pve, how cares about another class getting a little buff there?

i don't wanna do a close compare between 2h uses across the realms. that's really not the reason why i posted this. anyway i will reply to some things, because they are simply wrong! again what i wanna do is changing the silly, double spec system a bit, to help low rr characters on that classes to not suffer such a huge extra penalty.


@Windwalkr
fixing that is easy, if you want to do so. even at the current stat. they have done much more complex stuff within 1.110.


@StanleyM84
again no sure there may be some styles in some lines that are better then others. but if you really want to compare a warrior to a armsman, keep in mind that style damage is bases on the damage table. so no matter what styles you compare between armsman and warrier. the worriers styles deal more damage then listened because of it's damage table being higher. and remember that toa style damage is independent from the styles base and growth values. but that toa style damage is making a huge amount of the total style damage. if you wanna compare a paladin and a thane, you should also keep in mind that there are no dd procs on alb styles ;-) but as i said, it's not about comparing 2h users over the different realms, it's about removing the negative effect of double specing on low rr paladins / armsmans. it's not about removing double spec at all or giving it a bonus.


@Saxona
what i am requesting is not changing the armsman vs hero vs warrior battle that much (on higher rr). all it does is bringing low rr armsman (and paladin) just in line with other 2h useres. lets say a hero with rr1 starts with 100% he will gain up to 125% when he hits rr12. in compare on a armsman you start with 75% at rr1 and end at 125% on a rr12 one. you start with 25% lower because of that double specing. with the change i request you would start at 100% and end up at 125% as anyone else does.

gaheris is no real server that is counted when speaking about class balance. paladin and armsman under perform in pve just when you create one and level him to 50 by yourself. it does not help them that there are good pve classes within albion... they have to level that char without the help of the other classes. and there they suffer a additional pain because of double specing.

why you think they would favor over the classes they compete with? on high rr there is nearly no difference to what it is now. today a rr12 armsman has to spec 30 slash, with that change he has to spec only 25, but he will go for the anytimer at 29. so the difference is one single point. so what?

and yes i will look into dual wield also. i haven't done yet, so i can not confirm the mechanism to be equal to double spec or not. but i am expecting it to be a bit different.


@TropicanaJones
@ugo_phelix
@Saxona
@Thak0r
@Ethnad
@Zansobar
plate abs is much overrated. having only +10% evade or parry will easy fill that grab. warrior and hero got that... that is simple math ;-) i have not done all that tests to go over that over and over again ^^ watch the wiki for the formulas and run tests to prove that on your own! PLATE ARMOR IS NOT THAT EVIL! god damn that myths... shouldn't they go away in the new year?


@_skreWball_
i am not talking about rr5 ability or using all possible buff bots to win a 1on1 battle and please read my post... i am talking about LOW rr chars. i know that high RR have not the problem to double spec. and the suggestion is NOT changing stuff for high RR...

As a new Paladin I was sword and board. Two handed got boosts later, but

at release 2hand paladins were people who wished that they we a tank not

a support hybrid melee. Before endo chant, intant taunt, new styles etc.


I always thought evade+chainlate over time. Paladins never had enough of

spec points for any real parry. Their defense came from ABS of plate and

AF. Even with Con as a prime stat their hits suck as a tank. Who needs a

raising stat that does nothing for them? (piety)

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As a new Hero I went spearo and some parry/shield/1hand. Lots went LW for

the old rear stun off of Anni. I liked the thrust dps of spear and the ok

bleeds. I still did the role for my guild in pve that I did on paladin. I

think hero really needed a RR5 fix and with tactics at 45 shield gave them

a nice boost. Moose, Tactics, and if the RR5 didn't snare you while it was

on, but maybe after I would call it a day. Groups need a heavy tank for the

tools past 40.

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As a new Warrior I really new I found my class. I had everything I wanted

except endo chant, but potions fixed that. I like the dps and survival. I

wish maybe I had gone Troll, but I like Norse. I think when you get into what

would round out a Warrior, I would say we need tactics at 45 shield. I love

the idea of snap shot on thrown, but I can't justify it.

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Champions are good, but needed the endo redux to fix LW endo costs.

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Armsmen are really good. I got stuck on paladin way too much compared to my

Armsman. It is hard to get boosts for a solid class usually. Pole is good,

shield is good for heavies, snap shot rules, RR5 is great, double spec sucks,

group is good when you get one, solo is good, and I like mine. I would love

some archery % TOAs for mine.


Double spec has gone on for so long we will never get it fixed. I wish it would.

My paladin would love to be the same spec as my champ.

 

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Its not as simple to fix it on the paladin since its a hybrid class though


The paladin would have to lose auto train obviously.


The Plate armor = evade argument is fine when talking heavy tanks but it not so cut and dry when talking about hybrids


The thane, valk,warden,tic do not get evade,you going to add evade to those classes?

 

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And my argument is that if an armsman specs and templates properly (39 crush/slash/thrust, 50 pole, 42 shield), they will compete just fine against heroes and warriors of equal rank and template. When you get to rr12, Armsman will take these classes on even easier, because they no longer need to spec so high in their base weapon, meaning they can go higher parry and have even more defense on top of their plate armor. I think the flaw in this particular argument you're presenting is lacking sufficient data that proves the armsman polearm line is extremely strong. The damage compared to celtic spear, large weapons, hammer, sword, etc is significantly better. That stacked with plate armor makes the class even better.




You're right, Gaheris can't (and shouldn't) be considered in regards to class balance, but I was using the hotspot for pve as an example proving that paladins and armsmen are extremely solid pve classes. You're also right that paladins and armsman underperform at lower levels, but a lot of classes do (including paladin and armsmen counterparts; heroes, warriors and champions). Having played pretty much every battleground regularly, I can tell you right now that Mythic doesn't balance the game at lower levels. And these classes don't have to level by themselves. The battlegrounds update has pretty much guaranteed these classes a spot in a group to get to level 50 within a couple of days of casual play.

(I can go further into why armsmen and paladins are exceptional pve classes in endgame pve, but since that's not really your argument, I won't.)




I'm not saying it would favor an rr12 armsman, I'm saying it would favor the lower rank armsmen. There's the old saying "don't fix it if it ain't broke", and that's pretty much what I'm saying. I have 3 rr6 heroes, 2 rr6 warriors, rr8 armsman and rr11 armsman. I can tell you first hand that lower rank armsmen don't need help. That said, I'm not opposed to lower rank PALADINS getting a little love.

It just seems to me like you're playing some hardcore paper daoc. A lot of what you say has no practicality on the battlefield.



Plate armor is certainly not overrated. Again, paper daoc. I'd take the ability to slightly negate EVERY SINGLE successful hit any day over the ability to have a CHANCE to parry or evade (which often is negated by higher weapon skill) an attack. Having played hero, I can tell you this much; evading an attack is about as likely as blocking an attack on my druid.

 

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