-----signature-----

Fix the damn hammer line already


A 25-35 dd proc on the lvl 32 anytime style,also a 75- 100 dd proc on sledgehammer which is the follow up to the rear style conquer.If this means the 150 dd in the parry reactionary line has to be toned down or even flat out removed Im all for it.
This basically makes it on par with the sword line.Why in the hell Mythic in their infinite wisdom made the hammer line worse than sword or axe is beyond me.

A single target energy debuff added to stormcalling
A 7-10 % self resist pierce buff added to stormcalling


The thane is a offensive hybrid theres absolutely no reason it should be stuck on the seer hybrid weaponskill table,move it to the damn table it belongs on and if that cant be done


maybe add a lt component to one of the single target dds or perhaps a str debuff to the instant dd or something of that nature.

 

-----signature-----

I think we should have better proc damamge as well and i think they could reduce the power costs of sc a bit.

Bump for yet another Monday,

among 100's of Monday's that this continues to be an issue.

 

-----signature-----

I have yet too see a template that would work any better for me(as much as imaginary possible put into it) then my template - and my main FrostThane got 2257 hp, fully buffed(without ra's). My 1th Paladin got about 2845 hp fully buffed(without ra's - and with ra's precisely below 3000 hp) - with as good as no sacrifices to it's template.


This is because several different kinds of issues - but no matter what, thats the kind of HP a Thane would have, with a really good, or with a extraordinary template(now if one would want to go with a bad or almost decent template, and skip several parts of the important stuff, one sure could have 2400-2600 hp as a Thane).


One could argue that 2250'ish hp fully buffed would be quite bad on a offensive tank-hybrid - wouldn't you say?

 

-----signature-----

Yes the hammerline is a big class issue(not only because it's a second rate weaponspec, for the Thane - but mostly because it's the weaponline of the myths/religion/etc - Mjollnir).

However, it should remain seperate(my strong opinion) from both the axe and swordline - but be good, fun, usefull and have a slight edge to it, compared with sword and axe specs(but with some less strong sides/aspects to it - thus not to make sword nor axe specs obsolete - Mythic have been presented with some of these ideas in that direction - we will see what happens).

 

-----signature-----

You see that's just it...I wouldn't say that, I think it sounds just about right.

Comparisons to Paladins are apples n' oranges, as Paladins are a melee-range class. Thanes have --from the PoV of a hybrid-- exceptionally nice range and casting speed on their DDs, not to mention one of the better AoE DDs in the game and the most melee defense of any nuker in the game.

My RR9 Smiter has about the same HPs, but my nukes are only 1500 range and my AoE DD is high-priced garbage, because in order to get it to max level I have to give up all healing & buffing basically. A Friar and even a Heretic will both easily out-heal a Smite Cleric who specs for the 49 AoE DD...and that DD is still 27% worse then the Thanes level 45 AE DD, not to even mention the -100 range, -50 radius, and almost double the power cost. With a more standard Smite spec that basically ignores the AE DD, you can only barely out-heal a Heretic.

Also my R7 hybrid spec Heretic has about 2380 HPs fully buffed in a good temp, and TBH with Flex being str & dex based I don't think your templating troubles are any worse then his despite the RP buff. So if you compare all stats I think you'll find his weapon stat to be lower then a Thanes, most likely his WS too I imagine. I haven't been able to get more then ~76STR and ~100 DEX into his temps, his melee ToAs are god aweful with like 2% swing speed, and thus he's using a 3.0 speed weapon to attain a decent swing speed; thus he hits for about 100-120 in melee damage. (plus DA + 60ish DD proc) Oh and as for speccing woes, he has 20 Shield spec, because any other constellation with even just ~29 Shield means losing either ~33% melee DPS or ~25% casting DPS, or of course ~140AF & 5% ABS ( and 3% RP) which for a class w/o access to IP is a pretty big no-no.


So my point here isn't to lament about the issues that Smiters or hybrid spec Heretics face, but rather to point out that pretty much all hybrid nukers face the exact same issues that Thanes face. Each also have their strengths for sure, but if you focus on only their weaknesses you can make any of them look pretty bad.

 

-----signature-----

Windwalker,


This isnt ment to be personal just a refute to the points you brought up.


Tic vs Thane:

Dont compare a tic to a thane. A tic is a thane on crack with heals and rez. Easy to template, endless utility, take less melee damage than a heavy tank + banelord or Perfecter. They own PVE and are extremely viable in smallman, fg and zerg combat all at once... AND they can be Inconnu, an amazing race all around. I would kill to have a 70/70 dex/acu class that can be a hybrid on mid.


As for a smite cleric:

Smite cleric is a stun+nuke+nuke'r and you are crying because you cant spec yourself and have uber heals too!? You get insta cc and heals aswell. There is no lack of utility on a cleric, even as this "offbeat" spec. For that matter, smite is 1 line in a cleric's arsenal. I say cleric's have it effing great. We are talking about an ENTIRE CLASS, the Thane, not 1 spec line of 1 class on alb.


No other Non-heal, non-lifetap hybrid has low HP like a Thane. Even some healing hybrids have 20-30% more hp. Thanes need a lot more HP and more of a lot of other things to be compeditive in today's game.


Or just add a casted single target stun (like the cleric), and the class is perfect. But i know that will neeever happen.

 

-----signature-----

Yes it's true that the hybrids Thanes, VW's and Heretic in large face the same problems(the Heretic not as much as the Thane and the VW though - and VW somewhat less then the Thane).


Paladin and Thane would both be melee hybrids - a Smithe Cleric ain't melee at all(so I'd say if you thought me went overboard with the comparisons of Paladin and Thane, you went ever further.

However - The game have evolved in one way or another, and interrupting a Thane is quite easy(instas/taunts, charges(silence etc), ra's, ), and no ranged cc(not even a ranged cc option as some kind of instant snare, or disease affected by castingspeed) - thus a Paladin, for example, would be in melee in no time - and if of equal "skill" and rr, the Paladin would tear the Thane apart(I know I do Vs. most Thanes).


My Heretic got about 2400(+)hp and the VW about 2500(+)hp(and have some hybrid/caster artifact to choose from, that the Thane haven't).





I assure you, those free resist pierce helps alot, thus your thought went astray.

Add that Heretics got alot easier getting bonus to healing in their templates - and as you mention, no need for cap qui nor cap melee speed - A Thane have greater need for those, while having a really hard time getting everything else.

Mind, I'm not saying Heretics is getting of easy, just notable more easy then the Thane.


I suppose you just have to play a Thane, facing other enemies, with a flawed template - to actually experience the problems, a "paper-Thane" looks quite good, there I agree - in action most players playing a Thane just get eaten alive.

(not for all situations, but quite many, MoC would be of greater benefit for a Heretic, then IP - And having use of it in both healing situations and dps situations - and IP(as well as the ML10 heal % proc) ain't not that fun with a HP of 2250.


Due to the large amount of layered problems, the "sum" that is the Thane, have a hard time.

Most of your arguments ain't valid - read all my other post on the matter, here and in the Viking forum, and you'll see.

(but foremost, if you really haven't, do try play the class for some time - it's often fun, but the casting part of the class is just mostly taken "out of the game".


Not long ago, I had 2 1vs1 vs a Hero(might have been an armsman, can't remember now actually, but probably a Hero) - and yes, I both solo, duo, group and 1vs1. Anyhow, it was kinda fun, because he thought it would be fair to start like 200 units or so, away from me - and while I enjoy the challenge, it's a tad boring that the 50SC gets quite useless - unlike all other offensive melee hybrids, where their hybrid nature really augment their close combat, and more or less not possible to "shut down" by being in melee, or using interrupts etc(here a Heretic or a VW really got the upper hand, compared to the Thane).


Anyway, try make a template of your own, for a Thane, then play a Thane.

 

-----signature-----

If I may add to this, I've had a tic since the day catacombs released and he's currently RR7+. My Thane is closing in on RR5. Both classes have issues, no doubt. However, a heretic doesn't require 2 templates items that equal 10% spell pierce, items that can be better used for something else. Secondly, a tic has its own self buffs (and only needs d/q to be fully buffed) with paladin-like armor factor (with chant up). There's no other class in the game that can get 900+ AF without popping charges or AF chant. Its quite easy for a tic to obtain this. Throw in an UI nuke, a specced single target heal, access to awesome RAs (PD, BAoD, DI), and 2 great MLs, and you have yourself a awesome hybrid. Yes, heretics have issues, we all know that...

A Thane gets Chain armor, the highest midgard can receive, and yet is still way shy of a Tics AF when buffed. Thanes have no self buffs except S/C (the other two buffs don't enhance the stats). I have made a ton of templates for my heretic and my Thane and BY far, the Thane is a PITA. Even the reaver was easier! You need so many ToA extra's just to be able to be worthwhile.

I still say everyone above is spot on. Fix Hammer. Give us a specced spell pierce that increase in SC line, similar to Heretic's Enhancement line. Add a debuff to our single target nuke. How about bring back ragnorok?