I don't think Warlord is a bad line at all, but it is relatively unpopular and mostly specced by classes whose only other option is like BM. My point was to say that if Menty's feel that Warlord is not a good choice for them, then Warlord should be changed to improve that situation rather then cherry-picking the arguably best single ML ability of an entire line and handing it out to a class for virtually free.

At the very least it should be at ~20 spec in the weakest spec line, so you're forced to at least subspec in that line in order to get it. (And just place a level 49 requirement on it.) That ability alone should be worth at least that much IMHO.

I just think this sets a bad precedent and opens up whole new possibilities for whining, because Menty's by far are not the only ones that are "stuck" with what they apparently feel is a "sub-optimal" ML choice. Doing this is absolutely no different then making balance arguments based on other classes, without considering the other realities that class faces. Menty's will now have both quite an excellent ML line in WL, and one of the most powerful abilities of another ML line. I dunno, I just don't think those types of things lead to better game balance.


On the issue of debuffs and maximizing DPS, I think you're kinda forgetting about the importance of spike damage though. I think people debuff in order to raise their damage spikes, especially in situations where they're nuking a supported target.

 

-----signature-----

You are right on the ML debate. RM's should get SW and Warlord instead of Convoker (i get your point tho)

Thats the thing, you dont relly get any higher dmg becuse the initial nuke dont help. Getting a crit on a whopping 40 more or less is not gona change anything.

By your own admission, and various other people's, Warlord is good. The problem isn't WL, it's that ments don't have SW. You can make whatever changes you want to WL, no one will group a ment unless they have SW.

Alternatively, they can buff WL up but, if the statements of people in this thread are any indication, that would simply over power the line, no matter what. If it is made OP, maybe they'd get groups w/o SW, but then you'd have an enormous new issue to deal with. Think about how many classes get WL and how different those classes are. Can you imagine figuring out a way to change WL so that it OPs ments enough to get grouped while not having some crazy unexpected effect on savages or minstrels?

like the patch.

Mentis were strong all the time, just needed little tweaks to stand a chance against chant 7eld for a group spot. This has been done properly over the last time, not making the Menti stronger with wizzard-like imbanukes, but nice util you would want to have in group.
You could play them in group pretty well 4 years ago, if you wanted to.

The SW is a little over the top. Put it into mentalism specline 44 spec. This way the player has to decide, SW or Pet. It should OR not AND.

Silence should stay as it is. Can't see why it is removed. Great active ability to change something in fights, but unlike minstrel rr5 it deosn't affect the whole group, but a single person for a short time. And really, who has been attacked by a single archer within the last 4 years ? It's mostly 8+ of them anyways, so silence isn't a 1vs1 killer.

I'll agree with this. On paper it seems like the dps analysis is that the debuff isn't worth it. But I've noticed in practice against it that the combination of the NS -which triggers a reaction from 1 support followed by damage quickly -which triggers sometimes a different support person but at least requires a different action is just noticeably more effective in play even though dps wise it's lower.

 

-----signature-----

Cure nearsight and GCD were MLs then became abilities. But they are SPEC line. Menta Speedwarp should be no different.


Either put a Speedwarp/Speedwarp-like ability into Stormlord OR put Speedwarp around 44-46 Mentalism Spec.


In response to the comments above, many classes do not bring Sojo, Banelord, or Convoker to the party; Should they all get SW also?


Mentalists are a versitile list caster with tons of utility, they do not suffer from the alements of lack-of-availible-groups. If you arent getting groups on your mentalist, trust me, Speedwarp is not the reason.

 

-----signature-----

Very nice changes

Like many others I don't like the addition of speedwarp to mentalists. There are many underpowered or downright useless ML abilities that could be boosted instead.

I didn't see the nerf to Silence coming, but I don't really use it myself so I can't say that it bothers me much.

Im not sure about the change to end reg spells. I don't really see the point of having endurance if you never run out... After all, they *just* modified certain styles to low end cost last patch.

Oh, and I hope this is just an appetizer for Maulers. There is plenty work to be done

 

-----signature-----

The Paladin AF change is absolutely amazing. If it wasn't for the immense CC vulnerability of the class I'd say it's overpowered in groups due to how AF stacks. With 25% buff you'll reach close to 1300 AF, at that level a 50 weapon Warrior max two-handed crit will barely break 300 damage. Combo with a Heretic and the train is basically immune to damage.....until you CC the Paladin of course, which is trivial.

It's definitely overpowered in solo/small man, especially combined with the endo buff. I posted this in the other thread, but with 10 endo regen you can just stick with like 12 or 21 2H skill and go 50 shield, and abuse the fact that base weapon damage in Alb comes from the 1H skill. Use battlemaster styles with their high coefficients as anytimes with your mass endo regen, and you'll do 90-95% of the DPS of a full 50 2H Paladin. You won't have any ability to penetrate defenses, but you'll have Brutalize and a cap haste 2H that can easily 100%-0% any class except heavy tanks in a stun duration.

Even the ML10 cloak nerf is a buff for the solo Paladin. You can take smaller stealth zergs (3 stealthers, 4 if they're really bad) head on now with the poison nerf plus the cloak buff knocking their poison damage down to nothing, which is all their DPS against 1300 AF.

"EA is grabbing it by the horns and getting stuff done. Excelent job if you ask me, Absolutely stellar."

-Fixed

P.S. Anyone know how to fix my display name? I don't know how to get it to display properly..instead, I just get these random letters and numbers bs.

you forget about two hand bonus damage is linked to 2H skill ? With 12+20 skill your damage bonus is just 26% instead of 45%.