Date Posted:1/1/00 12:05amSubject:
ToD - Decal update
Now, please just be patient (ACK!! THE P WORD!!) and when they are able to get things working, they will let us all know.
Actually he and a vast majority of everyone else is being patient.
Alot or most of the 'community unrest' could be abated with weekly info or even just a solid answer.
This is what we know to be true,
1: it's being worked on
2: this ghoru character is the 'face' of the prject and has quite an attitude, isn't doing any actual work on the project but is coordinating it or acting in more of a brainstorming role
3: they've already had quite a bit of time (the whole preview cycle) to work on this and they can't even get it to draw a box on the screen
Most people use decal to varying degrees and it's important for their gameplay. Concern, curiousity and gratitude is all I've seen here.. a few notable execptions aside.
Dropping the attitude would be a good first good step and maybe just stating that things are(not) going well because of x,y,z..
Date Posted:1/1/00 12:05amSubject:
ToD - Decal update
Arch_Magi: I personally said on that thread that decal wasn't dead. I have said so at least once in pretty much every "is decal dead"/"eta on decal" thread. If all you're looking for is a clear response from Gouru, you're not going to get it... and if you do, it won't be what you were looking for.
Date Posted:1/1/00 12:05amSubject:
ToD - Decal update
Arch_Magi posted: Show me two places where someone on the Decal team has said "Decal is being worked on, it is NOT dead." Show me one time where Gouru says it.
I have no doubt that it is a huge project. I have the utmost respect for them. All that I am saying is that when one of the more "public" of the Devs makes a post that says "Decal is Dead", that tends to get peoples attention, and should be put to rest with equal clarity.
Ok, I'll show you two places it says they are working on it. But what the hell crawled up your arse to demand that Gouru is the one that answeres you? What exactly makes you think you have the right to ignore all the answere/replies already stating that they are working on it and demand to hear it from Gouru?
Now for the answers, I didn't even have to stray from this thread...there are AT LEAST two replies from Drakier alone stating that they are still working on it, just in this thread alone.
Drakier posted: well.. you're definately right about that... too many cooks.
We've pretty much got all the stuff under handle right now.. there is nothing currently right now that having more people would solve. We're still finding memlocs, and we're making really good progress.. we've got it down to a system here. The main problem with the memlocs is that they have changed so much. Most of the old ones aren't even around anymore.. which means we are finding NEW memlocs to use instead. So it isn't as if we can give you a list of memlocs that aren't found yet, because we're looking for things we need to implement, then checking to see if it is already found. As for the old memlocs, all the ones that aren't completely obsolete I believe have already been found. The ones that are obsolete, we're working on creating replacements for.
Currently, the best thing that can be done is have patience. Just sit back and wait. Unless you want to go grab source and start re-engineering the rendering code, there isn't much right now that can be done externally.
The ToD client has been available for over a month.
However, because decal is no longer open source, there is no way for people like to me help out. And because the 3 decal dev's left don't like to communicate with the masses, we have no idea what would even be required to help.
*sigh*
==================================
Just because the client has been available for months, doesn't mean anything. You realize that last time the compiler was changed, it took us almost a month just to find the MEMLOCS! That didn't even require a recode of most of Decal.
As for the decal code.. if you want to update the rendering engine, then by all means, go ahead! The rendering engine hasn't changed in 4+ years, and that is what is currently checked into the SourceForge repository. The code there is the code that we're using (at least for the rendering). You can make all the changes you want, and if they work, you can submit them to us to be used.
This is exactly what we told you in channel. We've told everyone EXACTLY what is broken, and exactly what we're doing to fix it. As we go along things come up, but for the most part, it's still the same. We're re-writing the rendering section of Decal to work with DirectX9, and we're working on getting all the memlocs redone. So far, that is all. We've communicated that plenty already. In messages here, in the channel. Anyone who really cared to know what was wrong could easily get the information by reading some posts here, or asking us in the channel.
Now stop whining and demanding Gouru answers you. Your question has been answered.
Date Posted:1/1/00 12:05amSubject:
ToD - Decal update
Quote trallic:
=====================================
Now, please just be patient (ACK!! THE P WORD!!) and when they are able to get things working, they will let us all know.
Actually he and a vast majority of everyone else is being patient.
Alot or most of the 'community unrest' could be abated with weekly info or even just a solid answer.
This is what we know to be true,
1: it's being worked on
2: this ghoru character is the 'face' of the prject and has quite an attitude, isn't doing any actual work on the project but is coordinating it or acting in more of a brainstorming role
3: they've already had quite a bit of time (the whole preview cycle) to work on this and they can't even get it to draw a box on the screen
Most people use decal to varying degrees and it's important for their gameplay. Concern, curiousity and gratitude is all I've seen here.. a few notable execptions aside.
Dropping the attitude would be a good first good step and maybe just stating that things are(not) going well because of x,y,z..
=================================
That isn't accurate at all...
1 is true... yes Decal is being worked on.
2 is not true. Gouru is not the face of Decal. We all are to a degree.. some more public than others. Gouru is also quite a large portion of the Decal Dev team. He's going to be doing his fair share of coding once some of the other guys get more of Decal working.
3 is not true either. We have had decal drawing on the screen for some time. It's doing it the proper way that we are having troubles with. Our last attempt dropped the framerate to 1FPS, and I don't consider that acceptible.. do you?
We are working on it. We HAVE been working on it. We HAVE been giving status'. Unfortunately, there are too many OTHER posts to go through and wade through to try to FIND those status updates. As for anyone saying anything about Gouru... His posting style is not what you might be useful, so you have to learn his style. Until then, its best to not take EVERYTHING he says at face value.. especially if it sounds sarcastic, or in any way something you don't want to hear. I usually come around and make updates posts that are more what you're looking for.. but you have to be patient.
FYI: as an update.. I just spent the last 5 minutes posting to you.. this is 5 minutes in which I was previously working on Memlocs, but I had to stop to come here and post an update, and squash rumors. Tie that in with the 3 other posts I've been replying to, and you've just got 15 minutes worth of time I haven't been looking for memlocs. How many more posts should I answer before I go back to checking memlocs?
Date Posted:1/1/00 12:05amSubject:
ToD - Decal update
The time is yours to decide on how to apply it.
However, using that as an argument to deflect the issue of poor communication does not hold much water.
The current PR "mess" is and was created by some rather poor choices on someone's behalf. Instead of just dropping his routine and coming clean for 2.5 minutes we have a 330+ post plus thread of people bitching at each other over something they really shouldn't be.
Great, I'm glad you're working on it.. you appear to be competant and have a desire to fix it.
Likewise, I don't have the time to wade through the several hundred posts about this or hang out in IRC (I assume) all day to find out what's going on.
Communication is a two-way street. It could be better, 'nuff said.
Date Posted:1/1/00 12:05amSubject:
ToD - Decal update
that's my point trallic.. I HAVE communicated.. quite clearly.. on MANY threads.. the problem is.. too many other people complaining about stuff to make people have to wade through to find them. You can't accuse all of us of not communicating because I've done more than I should have to in terms of communicating status.
It doesn't matter how many times I give status, or where I do it.. no matter what, people are going to complain, argue, ask for more ETA, or just overall dilute the thread with "bump" or "tag".
So we're all stuck wading through posts looking for answers. They are there.. just have to look.
Arch_Magi Title: The Lord of Chaos Posts: 827 Registered: 2002-10-31 14:31:20
Date Posted:1/1/00 12:05amSubject:
ToD - Decal update
Drakier posted: that's my point trallic.. I HAVE communicated.. quite clearly.. on MANY threads.. the problem is.. too many other people complaining about stuff to make people have to wade through to find them. You can't accuse all of us of not communicating because I've done more than I should have to in terms of communicating status.
It doesn't matter how many times I give status, or where I do it.. no matter what, people are going to complain, argue, ask for more ETA, or just overall dilute the thread with "bump" or "tag".
So we're all stuck wading through posts looking for answers. There are there.. just have to look.
Drakier, I don't think anyone is saying that YOU aren't communicating. The problem is that when YOU say one thing, and Gouru says another thing and they are opposite.
With people returning to AC after playing WoW or coming back to check out ToD, when they come here and see a Decal Dev saying that "Decal is Dead", then when you publically press him on it again, and he says it again, it's sends the wrong message.
I now know no one should ever listen to what he has to say, but others may not. I'm don't live on this board, I post mainly on HG and ACF and only come here for information. Wading through "flippant" posts that were started by a Dev doesn't help.
I use this place as a tool, I can't help it if you have on your team <edit>.
Date Posted:1/1/00 12:05amSubject:
ToD - Decal update
Drakier, MT_Gouru and every other Decal developer out there,
Despite the whining and crying and general nit-picking that's littered and diluted this thread (including my post now unfortunately), I just wanted to say "Thanks so much!" for everything you've guys have done.
Even if you folks never touched another line of the Decal source I'd still be grateful.
There are lots more of us, the appreciative out there than there are the legalists, whiners, nit-pickers, and attention whores. Please don't let them get you down.
Thanks again!
Oh, and as far as the whole "not communicating" thing is concerned, you guys have bent over backwards to let us know what's going on. As a developer of 15+ years, I understand and sympathize with what you're all dealing with and can appreciate the enormity and tedium of the tasks you all have at-hand. And it's great that so many people can read, but it still amazes and disappoints me to see just exactly how large a portion of those able to read miss that wacky "comprehension" thing.
Date Posted:1/1/00 12:05amSubject:
ToD - Decal update
Why in the world do people think the devs owe them anything? Their work is mostly free gratus. They do not OWE anyone updates but give them as they can. If the devs decided to drop decal, no one has ever said this, so what? it is their project! they can fix it or not. up to them. Get off the high horse and quit the bit**ing. It will get done when it gets done, or not. In either case they OWE us nothing so anything we get puts us ahead. STOP wasting their time!!
