"Using Make It! to make arrows that Lifetank uses later when macroing is 'using them togeither' even if not run at the same time. So 'in my mind' having both installed is 'using them together', but I perhaps did not make that clear in my license messages." - Gouru


I mean it really doesn't get much more clear than that. Gouru doesn't even want you to use products that his programs make at a later time with a "UCM program" ... even if that person doesn't UCM with them.

Quote:


Gouru has put a TON of time and effort into something, and you should at least respect his wishes... I'd LOVE to see you put as much time and dedication into something as Gouru has, release it publically, then have every selfish person use it against your wishes... maybe then you might get a small fraction of what I'm saying... then again.. probably not.


End Quote=


Yes Gouru has done us ALL a great thing.


But this comes down to the time of everyone. You (The Decal/Non-Decal Devs) know for a fact that people use LifetankX and Eltank correct?


You also know about 60% of the playerbase if not more use Decal for L/EL-Tank's...?


You also know that it took you time to write code for a plugin, as did it for the people who write LifetankX and Eltank correct?


So why exactly is YOUR time more important than others?


Why do you decide who and what should happen?


You want to talk about SELFISH????


Look in the mirror guys.


I read the first 5 posts and had enough.

tevatron has said that he doesn't use the items he makes with Find It! for macroing, attended or unattended. that use is not wholly inconsistent with the spirit of Gouru's EULA.


obviously, using them with a combat macro would be. in this situation that is not claimed to be the case.


remember, Gouru's EULA is not about UCM, it's about combat macroing of any type. the rule to apply is, if it takes at least one keystroke or mouseclick to kill each monster, then you aren't 'combat macroing' in a manner that conflicts with his EULA.


-ken

who said anything about any other devs time?


If a user wants to use ELTank or LifeTank, those developers have put a lot of effort in their plugins as well..


you should respect THEIR wishes just as much as Gouru's (as long as their wishes don't go against Gouru's, as Gouru doesn't impose his wishes upon them).


There is also a large difference between asking and demanding. Gouru asks that no users who use Combat Macro capable programs use any of his It! plugins because they are against his wishes. That wouldn't the same as someone from LifeTank, for instance, telling users to go use It! plugins with LifeTank because it makes Gouru mad. See what I mean?


Also.. I'm not deciding anything about time, nor am I, or Gouru, being selfish.


Everyone who has put in effort into their development deserves to have their wishes for product usage respected...


Same goes for ACDualClient users. If I were to create a license that forbids users of ACDualClient from using it with Decal, that would be my right as the plugin creator, and it is your responsibility to respect that. Of course I know that I cannot do that as I would no longer have any users, so I of course am not going to do that. But the idea is the same.


I have put time and effort into my PRODUCT which I give for free. The LEAST anyone can do is respect the wishes of how I want that product used.


Gouru has the same thing. He has put a LOT of time and effort into his It! plugins, and the least anyone can do to thank him for that effort is respect his wishes regarding the usage of his plugins.


I fail to see how any of my statements are selfish.


Edit:


Quote " You also know about 60% of the playerbase if not more use Decal for L/EL-Tank's...? "


Please don't make up numbers. Lets try to keep the conversation reality based.

My respect for you speaking the truth about that just went up 10 points.

"I would again like to direct you to the memorable post by Ibn (long before the CoC error) were it still available, that defined UCM as any Macro running, while you were unable to respond to +Envoys and affecting Combat... thus making Make-it a Non-Combat UCM Program... as is Castaway and several other plugins... This shows the difference between a principled stand "Please don't use my tools if you have tools installed that do this" and the vague issues that have been used in the past... We all know that Make-it is not a UCM program, but the language used to define UCM would make it so... - Hamfast"


First of all the only way Make It would be a UCM is if it was in a Combat Situation. Alone I don't suspect that Makeit Could survive or would be put in a situation where monsters were around. And that would be a Personal Problem with the User of the plugin not the plug in itself.


Second I have also expressed my beleif that El Tank could be made into a Legal (Non UCM Able for any time period) Plugin if only Elgar would make it where each monster had to be choosen for attack. That you couldn't just leave it there for 5 minutes before hitting a key and it would keep killing things. Basically if a +Envoy comes up to the bot in the 5 minutes and administers a 30 second Test your busted for UCM


I have no problem with Elgar's plugin besides the fact its still an Automated Combat Bot for 5 minutes. Maybe a Quick fix would be to have it check every 20 seconds ? But truthfully I don't beleive in Bots at all


Back to the Topic. Gouru has every right to make his EULA worded as it is and he has the right to even enforce it. I tried a while back to Enforce Plugin shut down on +Envoy Detection or even someone telling you something while your fighting a monster. It worked to some extent but the best Prevention is simply to not allow your plugin to work alone as a COC Breaker


I maintain in my Ethics of Programming Plugins that I shall not write a plugin that is Self Autonomous. That includes any type of Bot (Buff, Trade, Looting, Traveling, or Combat). My plugin requires therefore that human input must be present to work. Leave it alone and it does nothing besides the last Macro that was run. An ACM is not Watching El Tank run. An ACM is Not a Bot. Its more like what Gouru and Ken have been talking about. Its a Macro that you control not some Automated Robot.


PS does anyone have problems with Quoting and Previewing I seem to be having some

Getting topics locked that are legit are against ToS Draiker


I am making it. What ya gonna do now? Nothing but gasp and shut up?

people who make charitable contributions naturally want to know that their contributions are going towards the things they intended for them to. this is why there's always such an outcry when people discover that some charity is spending 80% of their donation income on executive salaries, or collecting for one disaster only to spend the money on something else instead.


the reason is, when you make a contribution, you have an expectation about how that contribution will be used, but since you're no longer in actual possession of it, you have very little control over how it will actually get used. when you find out that the money you donated to help 9/11 victims actually went to an anti-AIDS needle exchange program, you might reasonably be upset.


this is not necessarily the case when you contribute software to the AC community. software is different. software can be licensed, rather than given, and that license can have a EULA attached to it that governs how it may be used. there is nothing wrong with this, and certainly nothing that can legitimately be labeled "selfish".


-ken

Lil-Blub: who said I had anything to do with it?


Mods can read just as good as I can.. it was obvious that the post was a troll post relating directly to your comments in this thread (and others).


We're actually trying to have a civilized conversation (debate) and you're just throwing in useless arguments that don't do anything for the conversation except make you look bad.


So far, I don't see a whole lot of flames or bad things in this thread (even from the people I disagree with).


It's a thread to help clarify the EULA for other users and to discuss the ramifications, etc on users and the plugins by this EULA.


For what it's worth, I think it's serving its purpose well.

I'm so gonna own you Draiker


sRange ranges = discrete ranges...

for (i=0..numItems) {

range.top = 0; range.bott = 0;

for (j=0..numItems) but not us {

if (high value of j range within us) range.bott++;

else if (low value of j range within us or above us) { range.top++; range.bott++; }

}


Watch me.