Gaevren posted:
No one disagrees with you. Of course he shouldn't have shot the other kid. Of course nothing excuses that. NO ONE IS DEBATING THIS. The only thing we're disagreeing on is whether it's a "hate" crime or an effing stupid response to harassment. In all the news stories of bullying/harassment, what's the outcome usually? It's not the victim punching the harasser. When it gets bad enough and they feel they don't have any support from the adults/administration, they generally take 1 of 2 actions. They either commit suicide, or they get deadly. Either way something snaps in them. Again- it does NOT excuse the actions but it's a far cry from a hate crime. Now, if the gay kid had just been sauntering around, cross dressing but otherwise minding his own business, then yes you'd have a pretty good case for a hate crime. But in this case? No.
NonOffensiveName posted:
Ugh bullying is just another hot topic word people like to throw around now. Everyone is jumping on that band wagon now and the real kids(usually the ones who are gay but dont want to come out yet) who are suffering from bullying get lost in the crowd yet again. Plus if he was really being bullied you hit punch kick or otherwise ignore a bully until he goes away. You dont take a 22 caliber gun to school and shoot them twice in the head. Even if the straight kid was being bullied, he wasnt being harmed in any way physically so that doesnt justify using deadly force. Not that a gay student bullying a straight student is anymore right than the reverse. The least he could've done was take a page from the gay bullying handbook and off himself instead of offing the person who was bullying him. I just cant see unwanted sexual advances justify killing someone no matter how bad it is. What he did was cold blooded murder and he should've fried for it plain and simple. I do agree though all the adults failed horribly in the straight kid and the gay kid's life and they do share a great deal of the blame in all of this. Ultimately though the decision to pull a gun on someone and shoot them to death was the straight kid's decision. He should've had to take responsibility for that action but the adults in his life are now in a way trying to make up for the failure of the other adults in his life.
vn_anon63xxx posted:
What you are missing is that the gay kid was basically bullying the straight kid. That may SOUND strange, but I could see that in an extreme case where the school fails to protect the straight kid from unwanted advances that this sort of unfortunate act is somewhat justifiable. Imagine if if was a straight guy doing that to a girl and the school protects THE GUY instead of the girl being bullied? What if you had the boy's father and sister ENCOURAGING the straight guy to torment the girl? At some point the person being bullied is going protect themselves. The funny part is that the GLBT community somehow managed to get CA to pass a law to protect gays from bullying. It was the GAY KID who was bullying the straight kid, not the other way around. I've listened to interviews with both the father and the sister of the dead kid. WOW, are they out to lunch. They ENCOURAGED the gay kid to pull this crap on straight boys. Now, they act as if it was the gay kid who was bullied. The parents of the gay kid and the school are the ones I blame in this. With the new law you basically give gay kids the right to bully straight kids and it will be the straight kids who get punished.
What you are missing is that the gay kid was basically bullying the straight kid. That may SOUND strange, but I could see that in an extreme case where the school fails to protect the straight kid from unwanted advances that this sort of unfortunate act is somewhat justifiable. Imagine if if was a straight guy doing that to a girl and the school protects THE GUY instead of the girl being bullied? What if you had the boy's father and sister ENCOURAGING the straight guy to torment the girl? At some point the person being bullied is going protect themselves. The funny part is that the GLBT community somehow managed to get CA to pass a law to protect gays from bullying. It was the GAY KID who was bullying the straight kid, not the other way around. I've listened to interviews with both the father and the sister of the dead kid. WOW, are they out to lunch. They ENCOURAGED the gay kid to pull this crap on straight boys. Now, they act as if it was the gay kid who was bullied. The parents of the gay kid and the school are the ones I blame in this. With the new law you basically give gay kids the right to bully straight kids and it will be the straight kids who get punished.
Ugh bullying is just another hot topic word people like to throw around now. Everyone is jumping on that band wagon now and the real kids(usually the ones who are gay but dont want to come out yet) who are suffering from bullying get lost in the crowd yet again. Plus if he was really being bullied you hit punch kick or otherwise ignore a bully until he goes away. You dont take a 22 caliber gun to school and shoot them twice in the head. Even if the straight kid was being bullied, he wasnt being harmed in any way physically so that doesnt justify using deadly force. Not that a gay student bullying a straight student is anymore right than the reverse. The least he could've done was take a page from the gay bullying handbook and off himself instead of offing the person who was bullying him. I just cant see unwanted sexual advances justify killing someone no matter how bad it is. What he did was cold blooded murder and he should've fried for it plain and simple. I do agree though all the adults failed horribly in the straight kid and the gay kid's life and they do share a great deal of the blame in all of this. Ultimately though the decision to pull a gun on someone and shoot them to death was the straight kid's decision. He should've had to take responsibility for that action but the adults in his life are now in a way trying to make up for the failure of the other adults in his life.
No one disagrees with you. Of course he shouldn't have shot the other kid. Of course nothing excuses that. NO ONE IS DEBATING THIS. The only thing we're disagreeing on is whether it's a "hate" crime or an effing stupid response to harassment. In all the news stories of bullying/harassment, what's the outcome usually? It's not the victim punching the harasser. When it gets bad enough and they feel they don't have any support from the adults/administration, they generally take 1 of 2 actions. They either commit suicide, or they get deadly. Either way something snaps in them. Again- it does NOT excuse the actions but it's a far cry from a hate crime. Now, if the gay kid had just been sauntering around, cross dressing but otherwise minding his own business, then yes you'd have a pretty good case for a hate crime. But in this case? No.
Im not even trying to argue that it was a hate crime actually. The straight kid shot the gay kid in cold blood and pretty much got away with it.(compared to the sentence he SHOULD have gotten) The only reason that he did almost get away with it is because the kid he shot was gay. So it worked in the straight guy's favor that the kid was gay. The jury basically sent the message that if you're a big bad gay its ok for a straight guy to freely shoot you.(again NOT condoning the gay kid's sexual harassment that was wrong) Straight or gay aside, they didnt convict him of the premeditated murder that he committed.(one of the articles I read said that the straight kid had said he was gonna bring a gun from home and shoot the straight kid - I think it said a student and a teacher testified to that fact)
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