the only thing you HAVE made clear, is that we are talking about people so i dont know why you referenced and animal yet again.

funny how now tribals were considered above as simple but now they are *not that simple*.

 

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A government is when rules for society are laid down. This happens besically when a group forms. Yes, even apes can form governments. A tribal organization is a government, so it counts.

 

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We are social creatures who strive for stability... I honestly think that warlords/tyrants/etc would topple and govt formed to prevent it from happening again. That is what has happened throughout history... when govt turns into tyrants people find a new power structure.

 

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Because some human tribes are simply organizing on a similar level to animals. That is why I reference animals. Many warlords also are close to just behaving in a primal/animalistic manner.

I don't know at all how you got that I said all tribes are "not that simple". You referenced that I referenced way above in the thread that some tribes (i.e. Native American tribes) form governing bodies and are quite complex.

Ok, enough attention for your trolling in my troll thread. You kind of self-trolled with some of that inanity, though.





I think your definition is quite off if you think Apes form governments. You need to read up some some on why the word "government" was actually created, and what it is meant to label.

You also need to study ape behavior a bit more, they do not 'lay down' rules. Their level of justice/law is evolutionary/genetic, innate in their minds. The most you see is them applying those simple rules in tactful ways.

 

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Also I do not understand where everyone is getting the idea that tribal forms of governance were "simple"... most that I have studied are VERY complex... with many checks and balances and roles and responsibilities for all people... they actually even make the current U.S. structure look pretty "simple". Heck the U.S. has even passed a bill exulting tribal governance.

http://www.woodlandindianedu.com/images/Congressional.pdf

SENATE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION 76

"Whereas, the original framers of the constitution, including most notably, George Washington and Benjamin Franklin, are known to have greatly admired the concepts, principles and government practices of the Six Nations of the Iroquois Confederacy; and

Whereas, the Confederation of the original thirteen colonies into one Republic was explicitly modeled upon the Iroquois Confederacy as were many of the democratic principles which were incorporated into the Constitution itself;...

1) The Congress, on the occasion of the 200th anniversary of the signing of the United States Constitution, acknowledges the historical debt which this Republic of the United States of America owes to the Iroquois Confederacy and other Indian Nations for their demonstration of enlightened, democratic principles of government and their example of a free association of independent Indian Nations;..."

 

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i know you paid no attention to what you were writing in the OP, but god damn, try a little to follow you own thought process...and i am using that term VERY loosely!

next time you try to troll at least TRY to stay consistent and focused...otherwise it ends up like this thread really doesn't make any sense at all.

 

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This is because you didn't actually read the post but latch onto immaterial points by reading excessively into one word.

As to here, you are misinterpreting the 2nd line as somehow stating that all tribal organizations are complex, and correctly interpreting the first as stating some tribes are complex. Obviously that would be a logical contradiction.

However if you actually continue reading what you quoted second, the meaning is made obvious even to the most dull/obtuse. I was talking about tribal organizations as a concept, and stated "they lie on a wide spectrum. I just said that simpler ones are not governments."

Come on, if you are going to troll, be a bit more clever than a simple semantics Nazi conjuring something up from such a "minor"(non-existent) inconsistency between separate posts made over the course of 5 hours.

 

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and you kept going and going with many of my blatantly obvious *misinterpretations* and snipping of context.
but still...the OP is quite different from where you took all of this.

the ruling out of warlords is also quite lame, and many *gangs* have/had structures that investigating agencies still can not decipher and those dont just appear based on current times either.

 

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You don't think the alpha male "lays down" rules in the group (even if it is innate)? If there is a violation of what he deems appropriate, there are repecussions. Now, if you want to omit non-humans from the discussion, that's fine (since we would probably have to talk about ants, termites and bees as well). But the word govern means to impose regulations that influence the behavior of a group. Humans, being what they are, will form governments out of necessity to achieve some kind of security and consistent progress.


Therefore, it is inevitable that governments form. To eliminate them completely would take a DNA alteration.

 

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