so what exactly are you looking for levgre?

BTW...Warlords DO have structure, and while generally they rule through violence, they DO enforce their ways.
it's not just one guy in power of nothing, otherwise there would be no point.

 

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I never said they don't have structure. But Hyena packs have structure too. They don't form governments. By government I simply was referring to the various more advanced, larger levels of organization that have existed throughout history, and are actually defined as governments. I don't define a small bands people who pretty much only wave guns and steal food as governments, but if you want to, you can.


We could keep this simpler and cut the line off at the actual early countries, so if the first 'small kingdoms' had never been formed. If humans never organized beyond small tribes.


A Brief History of Government


"The first civilization began in the city states of Egypt, Mesopotamia, India, China, Mexico, and other places where small communities spawned kingdoms. We can trace the history of this culture in the wars fought between kingdoms and between nomadic barbarians and the settled communities. China and India brought forth political dynasties that had little contact with the outside world except when nomadic groups threatened them from the Asian steppe (or when a “civilized” conqueror such as Alexander the Great invaded northern India). The empires formed in Mexico and Peru were also largely self-confined. The Middle East is another story. Here political dynasties arose in Mesopotamia, Turkey, Egypt, Persia, Greece, and Italy which fought other kingdoms for control of the civilized world. The story of this civilization is the story of the rise and fall of kingdoms striving to become an empire which controls a territory containing many different peoples."

 

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couldn't you have just started there to begin with?
you acknowledged above that small indian tribes would be a government but now you want to ignore them too?

plus you also said governments weren't all complex, but now you want to only focus on advanced/large ones?

 

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I'm not ignoring small Tribes, I'm just making it easier for you. You disagreed with my definition that excluded many warlords, so I set a line in the sand for the evolution of government.

The early kingdoms were not large/advanced at all. I said cut off the advancement before they expanded beyond individual settlements into larger, defined states.

 

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Mission accomplished!

 

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Yeah I didn't get too much BT though... one post at least, so I know he read it.

 

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He's probably too busy trying to defend drunk driving, no doubt that's hard work.

 

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dont simplify it for my purposes...simplify it for your own.

way above you said there is a difference between governments and tribals...then you say tribals are governments. WTF?

 

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If there are only 2 people there will be some form of government and there will be rules.

 

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This is because tribal social organizations are not as simple as you think, they lie on a wide spectrum. I just said that simpler ones are not governments. Even apes form tribes.

 

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