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Topic:
What do you think 2012 AD would be like if no government had ever been created? [Locked] |
Arc_DT  Title: Mithan said I am smart
Posts: 363
Registered: 2002-5-28 08:25:51
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
What do you think 2012 AD would be like if no government had ever been created? |
levgre posted:
A power structure doesn't = government, though. Even packs of dogs have power structures, and apes have large tribal wars. Governments are uniquely human and have a more complex level of organization/coordination.
Mafias get close to governments in some respects. Except their focus is too specific on the accumulation of wealth, by leeching off the wealth first created by society.
Of course BT calls the US government a mafia, but the mafias' activities are only comparable to like a couple departments when the US gov has over 300 departments.
If you're having trouble defining the difference between "X" and "government," that's probably because X==government. There's nothing magical or mythical about government. Government IS a power structure. The mafia doesn't often get described as "government" as they're generally defined as opposing the official government, but if they have the power to make and enforce rules... they're a government.
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Arc_DT Title: Mithan said I am smart
Posts: 363
Registered: 2002-5-28 08:25:51
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
What do you think 2012 AD would be like if no government had ever been created? |
And with that, we'd all be dead, because we can't group without some form of power structure, and we're not going to survive the wild without grouping.
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BritonGuy  Title: Serious Business
Posts: 1,567
Registered: 2004-3-4 20:43:50
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
What do you think 2012 AD would be like if no government had ever been created? |
Oh look a semantics thread.
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levgre  Posts: 606
Registered: 2001-10-24 07:24:49
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
What do you think 2012 AD would be like if no government had ever been created? |
Arc_DT posted:
levgre posted:
A power structure doesn't = government, though. Even packs of dogs have power structures, and apes have large tribal wars. Governments are uniquely human and have a more complex level of organization/coordination.
Mafias get close to governments in some respects. Except their focus is too specific on the accumulation of wealth, by leeching off the wealth first created by society.
Of course BT calls the US government a mafia, but the mafias' activities are only comparable to like a couple departments when the US gov has over 300 departments.
If you're having trouble defining the difference between "X" and "government," that's probably because X==government. There's nothing magical or mythical about government. Government IS a power structure. The mafia doesn't often get described as "government" as they're generally defined as opposing the official government, but if they have the power to make and enforce rules... they're a government.
I wasn't having trouble, the issue was I was making stretches aligning a Mafia with a government. Not separating the two.
Did I once say anything magical/mythical about government? Nope. There are definite differences between simple tribal/pack/power structures and an actual government. This should be apparent to any student of history. It is largely a matter of intent, what a certain group of people are trying to accomplish, and on what scale.
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-Abysmal- Posts: 1,328
Registered: 2000-12-20 06:45:24
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
What do you think 2012 AD would be like if no government had ever been created? |
guess you should have been much clearer in you question.
should have specified large complex governments as we know them today.
Warlords have a position of authority and govern those in their region.
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Sith_Mauler Posts: 1,851
Registered: 2002-12-21 13:40:03
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
What do you think 2012 AD would be like if no government had ever been created? |
human nature forms governments, you have natural born leaders(what I mean is charisma, the ability to get people to follow you) and
then you have the sheeple.
humans have a herd mentality, even the most primitive peoples know to form tribes for survival.
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levgre Posts: 606
Registered: 2001-10-24 07:24:49
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
What do you think 2012 AD would be like if no government had ever been created? |
-Abysmal- posted:
guess you should have been much clearer in you question.
should have specified large complex governments as we know them today.
Warlords have a position of authority and govern those in their region.
Except governments aren't at all just the complex governments as we know them today... that's just dumb. They can be as small/simple as a native American tribe, but still these elders/councils are actually in a governing role for many aspects of the community and their daily lives. They create what is actually a human concept, separate from the primal social organization that humans/animals alike evolved into.
Warlords have very little capacity (or concern, rather) for governing or being involved with the community/people. They don't organize nor direct them. They just take what they want, because no one can stop them. It is very much like the relationship between a pride of lions and the lesser animals whom they take kills from.
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Sith_Mauler Posts: 1,851
Registered: 2002-12-21 13:40:03
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
What do you think 2012 AD would be like if no government had ever been created? |
levgre posted:
-Abysmal- posted:
guess you should have been much clearer in you question.
should have specified large complex governments as we know them today.
Warlords have a position of authority and govern those in their region.
Except governments aren't at all just the complex governments as we know them today... that's just dumb. They can be as small/simple as a native American tribe, but still these elders/councils are actually in a governing role for many aspects of the community and their daily lives.
Warlords have very little capacity (or concern, rather) for governing or being involved with the community/people. They don't organize nor direct them. They just take what they want, because no one can stop them.
since when is caring about the community&people a requirement for government?
example: turn on the news
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Well I ain't first class
But I ain't white trash
I'm wild and a little crazy too
I have seen a lot of things in my life time.
That is why I walk the line I walk.
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levgre Posts: 606
Registered: 2001-10-24 07:24:49
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
What do you think 2012 AD would be like if no government had ever been created? |
Sith_Mauler posted:
levgre posted:
-Abysmal- posted:
guess you should have been much clearer in you question.
should have specified large complex governments as we know them today.
Warlords have a position of authority and govern those in their region.
Except governments aren't at all just the complex governments as we know them today... that's just dumb. They can be as small/simple as a native American tribe, but still these elders/councils are actually in a governing role for many aspects of the community and their daily lives.
Warlords have very little capacity (or concern, rather) for governing or being involved with the community/people. They don't organize nor direct them. They just take what they want, because no one can stop them.
since when is caring about the community&people a requirement for government?
example: turn on the news
Caring doesn't just mean 'positive' intentions, it can also just mean interest/concern. Most of the crappy governments you see on the news still try to nurture their economy, enforce social policies, etc., even if just to ultimately sustain their own position of power and wealth.
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-Mithan- Title: VNBoard Admin
Posts: 1,287
Registered: 2000-3-1 11:53:15
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
What do you think 2012 AD would be like if no government had ever been created? |
Big Men running things, lots of violence, majority of people at the bottom doing the will of those at the top, etc, etc.
Slavery, serfdom, all that nice crap we have had throughout history where the controlling elite are privileged and everybody else is screwed.
Basically, the same thing we have had throughout history.
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