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Author Topic: Reason Healers are taking the pain of Cataclysm [Locked]
IndridCole  1 star
Posts: 223
Registered: 2009-1-7 16:24:59
slythetove posted:

For me:


The not fun is everyone else's character got stronger as they leveled and at 85 mine got weaker. I have no ability to be a difference maker by being a good player. I have only the ability to cast exactly what Blizzard wants me to (1 spell 95% of the time) or die. Couple that with the long cast time of the 1 spell and it is extremely uninspiring to play. It's so boring. There are no choices, and the only way that mostly works is horribly slow and tedious to play.


I heard someone describe it as "being a manual Renew" and that's exactly what it feels like. If I don't cast heal the "ticks" don't happen. My job is to cast Heal every 2.2 seconds so my heal can "tick". Boring.


--Sly



This may sound stupid but (depending on the tank) are they using their heal abilities? IE. Frenzied regeneration? Or some of the DK Blood spec heals? Or how about slower pulls? I know these have been 'thought of' but just not mentioned. So I thought I'd throw it out.

 

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IndridCole  1 star
Posts: 223
Registered: 2009-1-7 16:24:59
slythetove posted:

_Kewk_ posted:

slythetove posted:

Reason Healers are taking the pain of Cataclysm



It's no big secret. Everyone is aware of the reasons. In fact we all knew before the expansion came out. Redundant is redundant.



I'm sorry, was everyone that plays WoW in the beta? I realize that beta players knew it. I even realize now that beta players have been telling Blizzard about it. I wasn't a beta player. Most players weren't beta players. I'm sorry if I've offended you buy trying to understand and help others understand the problem with healing in WoW Cataclysm.


--Sly

Well shame on you.

 

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pattongb  1 star
Posts: 84
Registered: 2002-5-28 12:07:13
Ferrydust posted:

pattongb posted:

siujoey posted:

Cawlin posted:

Seriously, this model will make everyone a better player.



Yes, but who cares? I don't care at all whether I am "good" or not. Somehow, I care even less if other people think I am "good" or not. I play WoW for fun. And right now, healing is just not fun.


I don't pay the subscription fee on my accounts for Blizz to "make me a better player". I pay them to entertain me. I like the use of CC again, and I like that people will have to use some strategy besides roflstomping their way through instances. Having said that..... healing is currently not fun.



^^ Noone is forcing you to play a Healer. Im sure you could have plenty of fun being a Rogue, Warlock, Mage or Hunter.


Try one of those and leave the healing to those of us who want it to be somewhat skillfull so we can take pride in it.


Thanks.



There are very few healers having fun right now. It is not too much to ask for. Just because you are enjoying it, doesn't mean the rest of us should quit playing our class. The one that we have put so much time into.


One thing for sure, this is the closest I have ever come to just plain not wanting to log in anymore. If I didn't have guild responsibilities I am pretty sure I wouldn't. The anticipation of logging in when I got off work is now closer to dread.


If I were alone in this... fine. But I am not.






I agree theres something wrong if MOST healers are suffering. But we should all remember that there will be some kick back due to the changes. The question is, is it the norm or just the normal growing pains of a new expansion?

 

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Auenwing  3 stars
Title: straightface
Posts: 589
Registered: 2002-12-27 23:23:12
slythetove posted:

hopkjam posted:

I have to disagree, healing has a choice now. It's not .... everyones going to live while I spam aoe heals or tab renew anymore. The choice is simple and very clear. Let the dps who are messing up die and keep the good ones alive, try to heal everyone and expand too much mana, or don't. I'm a firm believer that there shouldn't always be a guarantee that all party members survive a fight. Sometimes death is an acceptable means if it means you save that extra 20% mana for the tank. That's the way it was done before wrath and I didn't see any problem with it. If people are going to keep blaming the healer... just stop healing that dps thats being dumb on a normal pull. When he/she and only he/she dies a few times they'll realize how hard stuff is hitting and hopefully start taking steps to avoid the bad juju.



You missed my point. I have no choice in what to cast. It's boring.


--Sly



Objective: make the class more fun.


Avoid: one-spell-only button pushing.


Classic implementation: Any intuitive change to a complex system will inevitably leave that system worse off

 

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The_Korrigan  3 stars
Title: Scrub Buster
Posts: 955
Registered: 2001-7-17 03:51:32
siujoey posted:

GutterSludge posted:

After a few runs, I would have to cordially decline your guild invite.



This one cracked me up.

Me too

 

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Cawlin  4 stars
Posts: 1,759
Registered: 2005-2-22 07:58:42
I just thought of some anecdotal comparisons from WOTLK to make regarding this concept of healing stress and so forth:

1) Remember Halls of Stone I think it was - the event with Bran Bronzebeard (name?) where he goes to the computer data banks and wave after wave of mobs keep coming? Yeah well I can distinctly remember running that in early WOTLK (long before Ulduar was released), playing a tank with under 25k hps or playing a DPS with under 16k hps, while a healer with only blues, some not even max level gear, some still level 70 gear having trouble keeping us all alive. I came to THIS forum specifically to ask for tips on how to advise the healer who could not keep us up. That encounter featured problems with AOE aggro management on the part of warrior tanks in particular, problems with tanks, DPS, and healers standing in the fire, and problems with mana consumption/replenishment.

2) Remember Halls of Lightning - the last encounter with Loken with the constant, unavoidable AOE damage along with the burst PBAOE lightning damage? Again, early WOTLK, sup 25k hp tank, sub 16k hp DPS, healer in blues at best, not all max level, this encounter was a pretty decent chock stone for groups that could not coordinate properly. I believe that the first half a dozen times I ran that instance either as a tank or DPS, the only way we completed that final encounter was with the tank and healer being the last ones standing.


In fact, in those early days I was definitely apprehensive about leveling my healer up and playing it in heroics. Seeing what I saw then in the days of not overgearing anything made me think healers had the hardest job going. Some of you corrected my thinking as you expressed your experiences as healers in the later stages of WOTLK as having a pretty easy road.

Thinking back to even early WOTLK there were times when encounters were VERY tough for people with the gear that was tuned for the dungeons. I honestly think that a fair amount of this distress is much of the same. The biggest difference is that now we've had 1.5 years of easy mode since those "difficult" times where before we had only the difficulty of BC heroics which were not easy mode by comparison. Granted there may be some relatively minor tweaks needed to healing classes' abilities, but I strongly doubt that an overhaul of healing is what's required.

Again I feel like I can't say this enough - the overhaul that is needed is on the part of tanks and DPS - tanks need to learn to be like they were in the old days of WoW - paying attention to healer mana, paying attention to the fact that they are in fact mortal not IMMORTAL like they were in the last 2/3rds of WOTLK.

DPS needs to become cognizant of the fact that they're DPS, not tanks, and need to not pull aggro, need to CC, need to get out of the fire, need to watch out for their own asses all before they consider DPSing.

A major paradigm shift is needed in the game and it is not with healing imo, it is a paradigm shift BACK to the basics that many of us learned this game with (and learned other games with in terms of group play from games like EQ, DAOC, etc.).


I feel like I want to come play my hunter and warrior tank on Sly's server with him healing and see if between the two of us we can't sort this stuff out... Obviously that's not an option for me since my characters aren't leveled lol. I guess I will get the chance eventually as I get leveled, to see what's going on with healers in my guild.

 

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slythetove  1 star
Title: Julie's Pool Boy
Posts: 146
Registered: 2001-11-7 11:12:56
I really want you to play Cawlin. Even if we disagree I know you are putting in the effort to determine your opinion based on your experience, and I'd like to hear it.

Here's what has started to really nag me beyond the actual math problems, which they are already fire drilling to address. It's not any fun. Their whole Cataclysm concept for healing revolves around casing a 2.2+ second heal 90 to 95 percent of the time. The dynamic feel of WoW is gone. Other classes are banging away with the same speed and dynamic nature, and new toys. Healers have been thrown into... I don't even know... bad EQ version 1 on slow?

Healing in Classic wasn't like WoTLK but it was still fun.
Healing in BC wasn't like WoTLK but it was still fun.

If I played better than another healer it was noticeable, and difference making.

This new model is flat out the opposite of fun - to me. I feel impotent now. One week into an expansion and I have to convince myself to log in if I play. I have to think of other things to do than play the class I leveled to 85.

I has a sad.

--Sly

 

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Bremen_Gaheris  1 star
Posts: 182
Registered: 2003-1-29 03:33:24
Cawlin, excellent post sir. I agree with everything you said but I think you are missing the point of what "feels" wrong with healers right now. Sly in his post above me definitely sees it.

It is that healers "feel" (subjective, I know) weak as a kitten compared to other classes. They buffed hps to the stratosphere, they also increased mob damage so that the mobs do almost the same damage comparatively as they did in WOTLK and DPS is close to or higher than WOTLK but healer's heals are WEAKER than they were in WOTLK. Sorry for the long sentence, but does that make sense to you?

And they buffed mana regen but that is NOT the problem. Heck, I don't mind running out of mana and having to drink. I don't mind having to triage players, had to do that in WOTLK too sometimes depending on group and instance. What I do mind is feeling so weak I can't save my party and keep the tank alive at the same time.

I realize also that if the DPS learned to play and the tank was excellent the problem would be lessened. But that means you have to stop using the Dungeon Finder and frankly that is the best feature they have added to this game since release. Now it is useless if you want to play a healer class due to getting abused by other randomers.

That's my 2 cents. I canceled my account until they figure it out and overhaul healing. My hope is that they tune it so that there is a challenge but I don't feel like "filling 5 bathtubs with water using a thimble" anymore.

 

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Elkabong08  1 star
Posts: 77
Registered: 2010-11-5 12:23:54
Bremen_Gaheris posted:

I realize also that if the DPS learned to play and the tank was excellent the problem would be lessened. But that means you have to stop using the Dungeon Finder and frankly that is the best feature they have added to this game since release. Now it is useless if you want to play a healer class due to getting abused by other randomers.



Bingo.
Dhorje_RK
Posts: 8
Registered: 2008-11-3 11:22:14
The silver lining: we're what? 10 days into Cata. You wouldn't expect someone new to the game to be the best player after only 10 days. While no one at 85 running heroics has only been playing for 10 days, there's two learning curves, one for the dungeon mechanics themselves, and one for the players to get used to having to play a certain way again.

The past few days I listen to the few 85 guildies who have gear scores that get them into heroics do nothing but QQ about the bad runs they're having. Funny thing is, they're pally, warrior, and shammy, all DPS and all complaining about fail tanks and healers. I want to tell them to try tanking or healing themselves but they'll just blame it on not having the gear.

Me, I'm in no rush to get into heroics. Hell, I was in a regular HoO group on my hunter only one of us had been in there before. Well, suffice to say we wiped on 3 of the 4 trash pulls, but we able to down the first boss. I wasn't able to make it past our wipe on the trash after the boss cause the reason we wiped was because the healer was standing next to the doorway while I watched the trash come walking up to the doorway. Tank was afk or not paying attention. As soon as that pull starting moving towards the healer I sent my pet in and started attacking to try to save the healer. Tank is like wtf, and tries to get aggro. Of course we wipe. I apologize and explain, but still get booted. I think they were jealous that on the 3 wipes I was either able to FD or take down the remaining mob or two just me and the wolf. Whatever, not a big deal.

But what I took from this is that if I don't want to spend forever in instances, I should be just as knowledgeable about the instance encounters, what to CC, how to pull, bosses, etc. as healer or tank. So I guess I have some reading up to do.

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