It isn't so much that the dungeon themselves are super hard, It's that you will most likely get a bad player with random dungeon queue.. and one bad player will wipe you in these instances..

I mean take Deadmines.. Dead Mines is pretty damn simple of a dungeon.. The Werewolf Boss is the hardest guy there.. and if you have one guy who just doesn't focus on the adds you will wipe...

The absolute worst 2 dungeons i've played have been Stonecore and Throne of Tides...

They rely far to much on CC, Stonecore you have to CC some mobs that frankly if they "pop" will wipe your group, and that's trash mobs.. Then you get to the first boss, who is frankly the most annoying boss in the world.. People either get hit by him coming from the ground (and I can't blame them, as i've been hit by him when i'm no where near him) and it's an instant one shot.. or they don't blow up the little pink crystal things..

Throne of Tides though is the most annoying.. the first boss again is bloody crazy.. Mainly because the whirlwinds look exactly like every part of the room..and if you're like me.. you get caught by them while watching other people get caught by them ;o)

It's like a Deer in the headlights issue hehe

The Healer mobs in that dungeon are retarded as well.. Lets assume I have an awesome Silence like my Feral Druid.. Those mobs will still heal their ass off.. if you can't keep them chain silenced for the ENTIRE fight.. they will just keep healing.. Which means if you don't have someone in the group like a Feral Druid or Protection Warrior combo.. You're screwed.. My Warlock for example is virtually useless against them.. I have one silence on a crap people that's got a 30 second cooldown..

 

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I got to run Stonecore last night and if it wasn't for the videos the boss fights would have been tough.


We wiped on more trash than anything else.


The last boss we just couldn't finish.


When the mobs came out and aggro'd others (those that got aggro'd) they wouldn't run to me to pick up. We couldn't get someone to successfully interupt the slam attack so when I couldn't pick up the mobs I was being slammed.


Otherwise the dungeon was fun.


And I know more for next time.

 

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Hardcore is far less than a quarter of their subs, unless you include water cooler hard cores (those who boast on message boards about it being easy/etc). I would doubt that what many call hardcore is nothing more than that. As in, the real hard core you see on sites like MMO champion with their world firsts. Even using some of the ranking sites its easy to see their numbers are incredibly small.

As for who will out, it won't be decided before 4.10 simply because the developers are being very hard headed. Reading the super long forum posts for blue snippets in regards to heroics and heals it becomes very obvious they want it to be a certain way and because they cannot properly design encounters to be challenging they nerfed healing to make up for it. By the time 4.2 rolls out it will be very interesting.

The guild I am a member of used to see 35 to 40 plus at prime time. We are lucky to break 30 now. Being very social I got to listen in on many good byes via vent. Some just vanished and never came back. Used to be if you wanted a run you got it. Now we have at most one tank who will run and another who will when pressed. Heals wise only the two FOTM class players are having any luck (paladin and priest).

I think that Blizz is going to find just who is paying their bills but will they recognize it? With all the arrogant build up to Cata about the need to make healers challenged because they were all bored shows a dev team locked into a particular mindset and getting them out won't be easy.

I play WOW for fun. Right now none of the Cata instances are fun, especially not when run as heroic. Far too many in my guild apparently feel the same. That does not bode well.

 

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Minion, you described one of the core design problems with heroics, specifically CC. What I don't understand is that Blizzard wants us to CC, but then the CC given to us are extremely limited. For example, some abilities that interrupt spellcasting are on an extremely long cooldown, and then they only work for a few seconds at most, after which, the mob goes right back to casting stuff. Skull bashed that caster from healing? Great, except like 3 seconds later they're right back to casting that heal spell again.

Sure, you could sheep them, but what if it's an demon mob? Sure, you could banish, but what if you don't have a warlock? A pally could attempt to fear them, but fearing is kind of retarded in that if the mob runs into other mobs, they then cause those mobs to aggro you as well (the warlock glyph that locks them in place makes fear a useful CC though, provided you don't hit them). So oftentimes you won't see fear being used unless it's an extreme last resort.

I think one thing they could do to alleviate CC issues is to remove the restrictions on what CC can be cast on. I understand that right now they do it this way to make it more challenging, and gives classes certain benefits for being in the group. But honestly, why give druids a sleep spell that only works on dragonkin/beasts, when you're then in a dungeon that has humanoids, undead, and demons only? Sure, they can root, but that's not going to stop a caster mob from casting on you, although I will at least say thank goodness they got rid of the "can only use outdoors" restriction on it. Priests have to spec to get silence, which then only lasts 5 seconds, and is on a 45 second cooldown. Ooh, on mobs it interupts spellcasting for 3 seconds, even less time than than the duration of the silence.

I wouldn't mind using CC in heroics, but man, they suck for the most part, so why bother?

Meh, I think CC is just fine.


Back in the day of 15 man UBRS you had to make sure you brought the right classes in order to be able to CC the right mobs. If you are doing a dungeon that has a lot of demon mobs to be CC'ed you are not doing it right if you don't bring a lock. Same goes if you are going through a humanoid dungeon with out a rogue.


CC used to be manditory, now people just don't want to bother with it at all. The heroic content may be a little over the top right now, however saying "CC is too hard why bother" is a perfect example of players being too lazy to learn how to play their class right and form cohesive groups.

 

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The problem with making heroics easier is that people will quickly realize that there's nothing else to do once they've got the heroics on farm (and there's basically no reason to farm them - gearing up to blue 346 is extremely easy, and usually done, once you've got a few heroics under your belt). Raiding will certainly require the skill set that people seem to be lacking to get the current heroics done, so that won't be a good 'next avenue' of advancement.

 

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CC is fine if you control the group composition which mostly puts LFD off limits if you want a smooth run

 

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They are clueless and none of them have a customer service background I think. They might be super intelligent when it comes to coding and developing a game, but they are dumb as rocks when dealing with people.


They dont seem to understand, its not what THEY mean in their posts/blogs whatever. Its what their CUSTOMERS percieve from what they are writing. They may have some great intentions for the game and never in a million years meant to come off as obnoxious asses, but their customers feel they did and that is all that matters. They really need to do some damage control with some quality assurance people so it doesnt get worse.


Clueless.

 

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Hey folks, if you would not mind, I would like some feedback on the idea I posted way above.


Why/why not would that work and at least ease peoples frustration with the current incarnation of Heroics?

 

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By the time they implemented this, the people it would benefit would already outgear this "new" content.

 

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