We can always tell when a statement hits its mark, as the personal attacks begin to fly.

You could not be any more WRONG..with your statement, which makes the combination of the two proof positive that you are exactly the person I was talking about in my post.

You can do it, as long as every little step is laid out for you...but anything "not in the scripted encounter" will melt your melon.

Thanks for volunteering the fact that you fit the mold, and strengthening my position.

 

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If I wanted a lot of "challenge" in my MMO's, I would quit them and go play real life even more.

 

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Heh, that sentiment definitely stirs up the "WoW is faceroll. Buff everything, plz. IF you think it's hard you're a retard." crowd here.

 

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This.

 

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I guess I've always just thought that there was already an enormous amount of faceroll content in WoW - you can level all sorts of classes on horde or alliance side, you can join BGs and just play badly and decide to not care about the team goals, you can do normal dungeons, grind daily quests, gather mats, play the AH, fiddle with tradeskills, etc.

Having a few activities that actually require you to apply yourself isn't an unreasonable request for a game. Before computers, for most of human history, every game (at least that I can think of) has been something to challenge 2 or more people in a pvp sort of environment. Chess, checkers, mancala, etc etc.

 

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Well now we are just getting into the semantics of "challenge". I don't think Mithan is saying he wants to hit one button and everything dies.

But if you are playing WoW and need to feel some sort of personal validation from the game, it's become more than what it is- just an MMO. Look around, there are plenty of those types of players that post here. You will notice them for their use of words like "entitled", "scrubs", "welfare epics", and "earned" (when referring to... pixels!).

 

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While 'personal validation' is probably a small part of the equation, I think most people like challenge mostly because it's stimulating. That's definitely a big reason why I play games - I enjoy the challenge of figuring the game out and beating it. And you could easily reverse your argument - why do people who find the heroic situation unacceptable even need to do heroics in the first place? Raids are certainly at least as challenging, and that's the only thing you could need the gear for.

 

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This.
And it has nothing to do with personal validation or whatever. The problem is not coming from neither the real "casual" players nor from the "hardcore" players, but from a specific type of players between them which is very loud and whines expecting everything is dumbed down to their level. I'd call that category "self entitlement driven casuals", or "scrubs", yes. They don't ruin (or attempt to ruin) only PvE, it's the type you also find on PvP forums whining and asking for nerfs as soon as they lost a duel against <insert random class name here except their own>. In the mind of those people, it's not possible that they suck at playing the game, if they lose in PvE or PvP, it can only be the developers fault, not theirs, even if a vast majority is doing exactly the same content just fine.

 

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Don't confuse challenge with tedium.

There is a huge difference.

No one would care if the dungeons were super hard, if queues were instant.

Waiting an hour, in the hopes that no one drops, resulting in waiting another hour is what pisses people off.


Waiting is not difficult. It is not challenging. It is just tedious.

 

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This.

 

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