In your mind, what was the one overall change that you hated in WoW?

Answers 1-9 are hiring Ghostcrawler.

10 is the Activision merger.

 

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Just as an FYI the McDonald's analogy is a weak one. it gets used a lot when the "quality" of a mmo and blizzard's dominance of the marketplace is brought up.

The problem with using McDonald's and quality is what are you comparing it to?

You can't compare it's quality to a good steakhouse because the steakhouse is charging you 5-10times the price.

However among fast food restaurants it's as good or bad as any of the others from a quality standpoint. The quality is essentially the same but it's profitability and market share is certainly dominant and has been.

WoW has dominated it's gaming niche. Whether it's marketing... quality or timing that can all be argued but stop with the crappy analogies.

 

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Your response (and Boone's) just reinforces my "crappy analogy". There are LOTS of things besides quality that can lead to popularity. Price, marketing, availability, timing, brand loyalty, etc. To say that WoW is a great game because it has lots of subs is incorrect. Correlation does not imply causation.

To put it another way: [tos_profanity] products can still sell well.

 

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The only way poor quality products or services sell well is if they are priced correctly, usually at a significant discount to the buyer. It works that way for MMOs as well. There are plenty of MMOs that only have a subscriber base because they are free to play. If they tried to charge $15 a month they would not exist.

Sure there are other factors such as marketing and the like, but you don't think Electronic Arts or Microsoft have plenty of money for marketing or brand loyalty? Why don't they have a MMO that is as successful or popular as World of Warcraft?

 

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Cataclysm


Too broad?

If I had to pick one change, the change to healing.

 

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Ok Ghostcrawler, errrr.... Broken. Just because we don't want to play the game the same way you do....

I didn't begin WoW only wanting to PvP. I played to max level, started raiding, figured out that it was incredibly boring and tedious, stuck with PvP. So I guess you would say my options are:

A) Suck it up and grind out the gear doing things completely unrelated to what I want the actual gear for, or
B) Stick with whatever I can buy on the AH while I get rolled by people in PvE gear because they can beat a scripted encounter that is always essentially the same.





I am confused now. Before, popularity was proof-positive of quality. Now there are many other factors? So a mediocre game can outsell a great one? And commercial success doesn't necessarily mean quality?

I agree.

 

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WoW has lots of subs because it's been a great game and is to date probably still the best thing that we have to choose from.

Your analogy still doesn't hold water because of what I've already stated. Arguing the points about the other things you listed are fine and dandy.

Look... gamers are fickle. their loyalty only lasts until something better comes along. If there was something better it would trash WoW. if for no other reason than WoW is 6 years old and people are screaming for anything new. The only mmo that any gamer has any loyalty is their first one. For some it's UO. For me it's AC for others it's DAOC. For some it's SWG (crazy i know). However their memories are often looking through Rose colored glasses.


Also the statement shitty products still sell well doesn't apply here. WoW even in it's current form is far from shitty when you compare it to what else is available. Boring and predictable. Sure. But as I said. it's 6 years old.

I'm like quite a lot of people. I play WoW because there isn't another good MMORPG. Rift I didnt bother with because the things I don't like about WoW are mostly present in Rift.

I'm holding out some vestige of hope for SWTOR. I'll give it a shot and cross my fingers that it's different enough that I'll stay with it. Otherwise I'm probably done with MMOS forever. I've played them for a lot of years and if something isn't different relatively soon.. i'll be done.

 

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I am just curious. Since when is it considered good debate tactics to simply selective quote and ignore the questions presented? Is it because you do not have an answer to my questions? Or is it because the answers do not fit your agenda?

I will tell you what. I have an answer to your question and if you care to hear it I will provide it when you answer the ones I presented first.

In case you missed the question here is the complete portion of what you quoted without you editing the rest of the context off:

 

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Not true. Plenty of crap has outsold superior products that were comparably priced for all kinds of reasons. Claiming that price and quality dictate popularity is overly simplistic.





Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't know that presenting rhetorical questions with no possible answer other than pure speculation was a good debate tactic. So I guess we're both learning, eh?

 

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Really? What superior products that were comparably priced were outsold by crap products? I can't think of any so help me out with a few examples please.





Let's see. We can agree Activision/Blizzard, EA, Microsoft and Sony all have adequate money to spend on advertising right? We likely can agree that all four are well known name brands that have customer loyalty as well correct? So no real advantage there is there? None of them charge any more than World of Warcraft does for their monthly MMO service charges either, so no advantage there.

So what else could possibly explain why Activision/Blizzard has the most successful MMO of all time? Is this the rhetorical part you were speaking of?

If it is then yes you are correct, the answer is quality.

 

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