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Topic:
In your mind, what was the one overall change that you hated in WoW? [Locked] |
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:01am
Subject:
In your mind, what was the one overall change that you hated in WoW? |
He is blaming the difference in gear....as the "root" of the problem...
I'm just pointing out that he didn't go quite far enough back to get to the REAL root of that issue.
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Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"  ea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother. |
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:02am
Subject:
In your mind, what was the one overall change that you hated in WoW? |
You're both right. Gearbased works great for PvE (if you like that style), not so much for PvP.
loztpassword posted:
You are missing the problem.
The WoW paradigm system, of PvE loot treadmill........ begats the necessity for the PvP loot treadmill.
You are kidding yourself if you think it would have been a good idea to offer no rewards for PvP so as to only have "hardcore" PvP lovers PvPing.
What you would have gotten instead, as siujoey points out, is that players that PvP would have then been forced to PvE. Why? Because as players figured out that their PvE gotten loot treadmill goods meant they could go PvP and destroy PvPers that hadn't gotten samesaid loot treadmill goods....... PvP "only" players would be screwed.
Then, the PvP wouldn't be about "the love of the game" but instead about who was able to bring their raid-gotten goods from guild help... to destroy the guy only interested in PvP for "the love of the game".
Anyone who played WoW for PvP ONLY was proceeding from a false premise in the first place. WoW was never and will never consider PvP as enough of a standalone portion that PvE is never a part of it, so why pretend the two playstyles, in WoW, are equal.
Yes, PvPers would have had to PvE. Such is WoW, it always has been, and always will be, PvE first. That doesn't stop them from making changes that originated from PvP, of course.
It's no coincidence that all of the most popular times in WoW PvP history had no gear treadmill (or ignored it) and willingly encompassed PvE gear. As Blizzard stumbled around implementing gear every single instance turned out poorly, from the life destroying requirements of R14 to later afkers and leeches and today's PvP ennui.
Siujoey can snivel and whine that his rebuttal fell short, the fact continues to remain that the PvP gear factor negatively impacted WoW from both the issue of balancing abilities around it (thanks to resilience) creating endless PvE headaches (while rarely successfully making the PvP work), and rewarding it for questionable effort (afkers, leeches, and people who just didn't care) which wrecked the PvP and is directly responsible for today's queue times and non participation. Had PvP gear not been implemented, these two issues, IMO the two most damaging things that hit WoW, would not have happened, or would at least have been mitigated.
-----signature-----
Thanks, but it's been fun
Five more minutes then I'm done!
I've been saying that to myself since
...yesterday.
- from "Has anybody seen my corpse". Man Everquest rocked back in the day...
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Boone-Eldar  Title: Infallible
Posts: 273
Registered: 2001-12-28 16:31:37
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:02am
Subject:
In your mind, what was the one overall change that you hated in WoW? |
GutterSludge posted:
He is blaming the difference in gear....as the "root" of the problem...
I'm just pointing out that he didn't go quite far enough back to get to the REAL root of that issue.
No you weren't but good effort.
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Seriously?
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:02am
Subject:
In your mind, what was the one overall change that you hated in WoW? |
But PvPers are part of the game too.
How fair would it be if PvE players could rack up the ridiculous loots and grow their characters, while PvP players were left basically to rot?
As I pointed out to you, that isn't what really would happen. Where the two worlds would never cross....
Rather, PvE players would want to take their god-mode (equipped with epix) to PvP land to ruin the fun for the PvP "love of the game" guy.
Why? Because they *could*. That's what gamers do.
I'm not going to disagree with you that PvP and PvE are difficult to combine, in games that are built on the WoW paradigm.
Which is why I also said, I don't much see what Blizz could have done any different. You start with the loot pinata treadmill setup... and the outcome is already pre-determined. It's only a matter of time.
-----signature-----
Throw away your desires and treasures, and make sure to burn all the maps.
MMORPG
Mystaquetz in various forms.
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:02am
Subject:
In your mind, what was the one overall change that you hated in WoW? |
Boone,
Take away gear dependency, and introduce skill dependency, and this issue never happened.
You cannot make the argument that one type of gear is problematic w/o realizing that the heart of the problem is a gear based system, and that you are BOUND to have these PVP/PVE issues with such a system.
Issues which prompted an entire set of "gear" being added to the game in the first place.
Boone, you get a 0.5/10 for comprehension...but keep trying...you might be all caught up in a year or three.
-----signature-----
Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:" ea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother. |
Boone-Eldar Title: Infallible
Posts: 273
Registered: 2001-12-28 16:31:37
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:02am
Subject:
In your mind, what was the one overall change that you hated in WoW? |
GutterSludge posted:
Boone,
Take away gear dependency, and introduce skill dependency, and this issue never happened.
You cannot make the argument that one type of gear is problematic w/o realizing that the heart of the problem is a gear based system, and that you are BOUND to have these PVP/PVE issues with such a system.
Issues which prompted an entire set of "gear" being added to the game in the first place.
Boone, you get a 0.5/10 for comprehension...but keep trying...you might be all caught up in a year or three.
I understood just fine. Bleating about whatever it is you bleat about here week in and week out, year after year, will never change that fact every single complaint posted in this thread or on this board, including yours and mine, is insignificant in the overall scope of things.
That overall scope is that World of Warcraft is THE most successful MMORPG ever made and there isn't even a close second. There may never be another MMORPG that is as successful as World of Warcraft is still currently 6 years after it was released. Something had to be done very right and have very little wrong for that to happen.
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Seriously?
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:02am
Subject:
In your mind, what was the one overall change that you hated in WoW? |
I disagree.
If there are 1,000,000 fish in the ocean, and I catch 100,000...(like # of computer users 10-15 years ago, and AC's sub numbers, or UO's, or pick an MMO)
Or there are a billion fish in the ocean, and you catch 12 million....(like # of computer users today)
Who is the better fisherman?
Don't let that 12 million number cause you to forget how to calculate a simple percentage. (If you ever knew)
-----signature-----
Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:" ea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother. |
Boone-Eldar Title: Infallible
Posts: 273
Registered: 2001-12-28 16:31:37
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:02am
Subject:
In your mind, what was the one overall change that you hated in WoW? |
GutterSludge posted:
I disagree.
If there are 1,000,000 fish in the ocean, and I catch 100,000...(like # of computer users 10-15 years ago, and AC's sub numbers, or UO's, or pick an MMO)
Or there are a billion fish in the ocean, and you catch 12 million....(like # of computer users today)
Who is the better fisherman?
Don't let that 12 million number cause you to forget how to calculate a simple percentage. (If you ever knew)
There are 1000x more computer users today than there was 10-15 years ago? Really?
How do you explain why any number of MMOs released after WoW came no where close it's success?
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Seriously?
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Crafty_ac2  Posts: 99
Registered: 2002-12-8 23:08:07
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:02am
Subject:
In your mind, what was the one overall change that you hated in WoW? |
Arunne posted:
I would have to say the talent/class changes for Cataclysm. Totally changed the class/spec I loved to play.
Close second would be the attitude of we know what you want and stop complaining that it's not what you want.
pretty much this.
-----signature-----
Balance in a game is only achieved
when no class is fun to play...
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:02am
Subject:
In your mind, what was the one overall change that you hated in WoW? |
Boone...
google "exponential growth"..then get back to me...
As far as success or failure goes, I've addressed that in part recently..
http://vnboards.ign.com/world_of_warcraft_general_board/b19789/114489763/p1
-----signature-----
Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:" ea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother. |
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