You think that applies to the amount of computer users or amount of available subscribers?

/facepalm





Uhh that post has nothing to do with why WoW has sold so many more copies and had so many more subscriptions than any other MMO when it has done so much wrong according to the people on this board.

I wonder how many times you have linked it though. You seem quite proud of it.

 

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you're looking at gear progression from a wrong perspective.

PvE should be a gear progression in the wow model. It's the progression in gear which allows you to defeat harder bosses.

PvP should be static as far as gear. The reason that pvp should be played is not so that someone with a tank can beat up on someone with a slingshot.

All they have to do for pvp is to change out armor sets when you BG or do arenas. Full set of armor. My survival hunter's armor and stats are the same as your survival hunter's armor and stats. They might be different between survival and beast hunter.

By having specific pvp sets... it would allow for tweaking of classes in pvp without affecting pve.

Can create buffs or debuffs on the armor to change attacks or heals without affecting them in pve.

Quite often some special is totally fine and balanced in pve but not in pvp or vice versa.

Besides imo pvp shouldn't be about one guy being geared out fighting another guy who isn't. PvP also shouldn't be about grinding the gear. PvP should be about the quality of the fight. PvE should be about progression.

 

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[tos_personal attacks]

in 1991 the 14,400 baud modem was introduced for a mere 400 dollars or so...

That was 20 years ago.

Windows 3.1 in 1992...(19 years ago..since math is sooo difficult for you)

Some of us remember things like this, and some are completely oblivious as to how far we have come in a mere 15-20 years...


Meridian launched in 95,(16 years ago) WOW 10 years later in 05(6 years ago). If you cannot conceive the exponential differences (including bandwidth, total users, and computer capability) between these time periods, then I cannot help you.


[tos_trolling]

 

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lol I had a commodore 64 when I was 14. We had a desktop PC in the house back then as well, when very few people did. I actually was connecting to the internet when people had no idea what the internet was. There was no browsers or graphic interfaces. There was no such thing as windows back then. We typed everything in DoS commands. In 1991 I was graduating High School. I am well aware of what technology existed and how much it cost at that time. I played The Realm and then UO when it was first released. I was in my mid 20s at that point.

Just to keep your facts straight, WoW actually released in November of 04.

Just to make it crystal clear for you. I am not arguing that there are more subscribers available now than there was when UO first released 12 years ago. There obviously is. What I stated was that there is not 1000x more subscribers available now than there was 10 or 15 years ago. That is just a gross exaggeration on your part.

But let's just go with your numbers as accurate for arguments sake.

You conveniently neglect to mention that along with the "exponential" amount of available subscribers there has also been an "exponential" growth in competition for that available subscriber base during that same time frame. Not hard to get market share when you are only competing against a couple other MMOs right?

How much competition you ask?

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm

 

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Wrong. Popularity does NOT equal quality. Just because lots of people buy it, doesn't mean it's good. Especially with something so subjective. I would say McDonald's probably serves more meals per day than any other restaurant I can think of. That doesn't mean it is the best quality. If you need further proof- go look at the top 10 grossing films of the year. I bet there is a lot of crap in that list.

If you equate popularity with quality, I will assume you eat at McDonald's on your way back from Wal-Mart, while listening to Justin Bieber on the way home in your Ford Focus.

 

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And how many of those other game makers advertise during the Superbowl?

Not only are there far more subscribers to hook today then there was back when M59 came out, but people know about them today. Or at least one of them.

If you've been playing online games as long as you claim Boone then you would know that back in the day we were considered pasty faced geeks because we played these games, and **GASP** paid to play them. When WoW came out and advertised, not to mention Blizzards previous reputation, and the World of Warcraft series' popularity, they opened up a whole new, and much larger, subscription base.

As for the more recently released games that have failed compared to WoW (and who isn't a failure compared to WoW when you talk about profits) how many of them tried to be WoW clones? More then half easily.

If WoW were so great a game you'd think at least one of these clones would have succeeded. I guess you're starting to see that now with Rift to some degree. Mostly it's because people are getting bored of the same old same old that is WoW, but without any real change out there, they're willing to move to a WoW clone just for something evenly remotely new.

I hate to agree with Gutter, I really do, but I have to on this point

Just because McDonald's sells billions of burgers doesn't mean it makes the best burgers. It means people prefer them to the other choices. I prefer Wendys myself, but I would never say Wendys makes a great burger, it's just the best available for me if I don't have time to make my own.

I wish game devs would go back to just making money instead of wanting to blow the roof off the profit column. Sure they might only get a few hundred thousand subs instead of 10+ million, but I believe more of us would be able to find a game we can truly love to play again, like it was back before Blizzards huge monetary success got in the way of true game development.

 

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Those things may not be quality to YOU, but they obviously are to millions of people. Also you neglect to mention cost in your theory. Some of the things listed are popular because they are cost less than the competition. This is not the case with World of Warcraft.

 

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This.

 

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Boone, I suspect you're missing the original point. Assuming I understood Gutter's statement, he was asserting that a gear-based system will inevitably decline as they run out of new ideas -- the inevitable result of an gear "arms race." Considering the only thing keeping people subscribed to WoW for the most part is that they have a well-designed engine that makes exploring their content fun. Meaning, as soon as you've seen most of the content, there's not much left to do. And eventually, they'll run out of logical ideas to continue the lore. /shrug

 

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No I understand what the point they are trying to make. It is not something new. The topic has been discussed and argued many, many times over on these boards over the years. They are wrong. The gear based model has proven to unarguably successful. Far more successful than any other model introduced and has maintained that success over a longer period than any other MMO.

Everquest used the same model and it was the most successful MMO among it's competitors during the time having more subscribers than all the others combined at it's peak.

The reason people stay subscribed to this model is they enjoy chasing the carrot. Once you hit the level cap, the carrot turns into gear. The only way to advance your character is to get better gear. Gear is basically alternative advancement in World of Warcraft, always has been.

 

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