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Topic:
4.1 Preview -- Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms [Locked] |
The_Korrigan  Title: Scrub Buster
Posts: 955
Registered: 2001-7-17 03:51:32
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
4.1 Preview -- Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms |
I'm not sure the real tanks/healers will queue more, risking to get a high repair bill and to deal with "stupid", just to try to get mounts they can also try to get with a very short solo run to the low level dungeons without having to worry about Mister John "DPS" Doe not being able to avoid the fire on the floor.
One thing is sure though, you will have a lot more of John "DPS" Doe queuing with their "healer wannabe" or "tank wannabe" off spec... I'm sure the level of your average PUG will "raise" to new "depths"...
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SWTOR: 50 Jedi Shadow (Tank), 50 Sith Marauder (Annihilation).
LOTRO: Lifetime account, playing very casually.
WoW: Both accounts canceled for now.
GW2: Future Warrior.
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
4.1 Preview -- Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms |
Bremen_Gaheris posted:
So, why is everything apparently "going wrong" when PUGs are doing dungeons? And how is something being wrong with the dungeon design and philosophy the player's (paying customer's) fault?
Well, to break it down for you in a nutshell, the DPS folks want to mash their buttons and do as much damage as possible. They want to do this without regard to the tank's need to build aggro first or the healer's need to regain mana following each fight. The DPS feel that they should be able to pull the mobs so they can get a head-start on the damage meters which in turn drains the healers mana needlessly and forces the tank to battle harder to gain control of the fight.
The DPS will then gang up (3 on 1 or sometimes 3 on 2) and blame the tank/healer for their failure to work together as a team. All of the roles are equally important to the groups survival, and DPS has learned that by being louder and more arrogant they can dodge any responsibility for their own actions.
Someone in this thread was talking about fun... my fun is curtailed when 3 people out of any PUG act like rabid dogs and get the group killed needlessly and repeatedly due to their selfishness and carelessness.
I'm curious, what model would you like to put in place that replaces the "flawed" model currently in place for MMO's?
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"  ou may have graduated from Cambridge
but I am an honorary graduate from Starfleet Academy!"
~ Sheldon
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Kotawolf Posts: 1
Registered: 2011-4-8 08:53:43
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
4.1 Preview -- Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms |
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Wow.. just wow... all the craziness...
Several people have posted that they no longer subscribe... why are you replying to this then?
Just want the logical reason....
My view is this will not fix the problem.. and will anger more people that it helps....the way I read it...ONLY the role that is short will get this perk.. so on my server that is TANKS... healers have a 10-20 min queue right now.
So... No one but the tanks will get these pets and mounts. As a Healer/DPS, it does nothing to make me want to queue up for randoms more.
I am still getting in groups that take over an hour to do a run. This is a bad idea.
Why do I still play this game???
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sarnsereg  Title: I HAS A TITLE?
Posts: 117
Registered: 2001-6-17 21:19:51
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
4.1 Preview -- Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms |
the whole 45 minutes for an instance was great. the problem I've had with this expansion is I only run heroics to get my 70 valor points a day. and it's borderline not worth doing it(on the not worth doing it side right now for me) when I log on and as dps i have a 45 minute queue + an hour + i'll need to spend in the instance. even as heals i have a 15-20 minute queue and an hour or longer in the instance.. usually a lot longer because for some reason when i heal i get super noobs. i'm not great at healing but when i run with my friends i can heal the heroic just fine, when i do it in a pug people die all the time.
it's just not worth it, if i can't do a guild/friend run i don't do a heroic most days.
and on top of that with the upcoming change where we can trade honor/conquest for justice/valor me and everyone else will probably just pvp because let's face it.. you can afk a BG and earn conquest points eventually when your team wins, can't do that in an instance... and i can get into a bg in 2 minutes versus 40 minutes.
edit: yes i hate the fact that blizzard knows it's all about tanks and tanks will be the ones that always get the call to arms. that's only part of the problem i have with it. it will also bring a FLOOD of nubcake wannabe tanks who just want the call to arms rewards.
who cares if this fixes it so as DPS i can get into a heroic in 10 minutes instead of 40 minutes when the tanks i get are so bad that we can't complete an instance?
they "claim" that sometimes it's dps.... really? since when? i don't think i can EVER remember when as a dps i hit queue and less than 15 seconds have my heroic instance pop for me like i have when i tank. now as heals it used to be close to 2-3 minutes but that's jumped to 15-20 minutes so i doubt as heals i'll ever get it either.
i see that blizzard understands the problem is there is a lack of tanks. i see they re TRYING to remedy the situation. I also see they are going about it completely wrong.
also, how many tanks will this REALLY entice into pugging over just running instances with guild/friends or selling their services as they are now for 100g a person? i mean 400g an isntance might be worth more than what they are offering with this new program.
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"...and they'll say "Hey, Look at him!, I'll never live that way". And that's ok they couldn't anyway..."
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TruthyID Posts: 189
Registered: 2010-7-7 12:52:20
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
4.1 Preview -- Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms |
HunterTalon posted:
I respect your opinion, but are you honestly saying that the protector and healer roles have always been sparsely populated in every game since 1975 is because those roles have never been correctly implemented so as to be fun? Be serious. Tanking is fun and healing is fun (ok this is subjective, I should say I find those roles fun)... the real reason people don't often fill those roles is because they get blamed when something goes wrong. Period.
I would be more apt to believe you if this had been a problem as long as the LFD tool has been out but it hasn't been. The queues times have gone from 10-15 minutes in WotLK to 45 minutes or more in Cataclysm.
There are 2 main differences between then and now.
1. They redesigned the 5 man experience. Heroics take a hell of a lot longer so people are less likely to run more than one per day. Cataclysm heroics are a slog and are less fun than WotLK heroics. Once people have the gear they need out of heroics they're unlikely to return because they're not worth the effort, particularly when they're hitting the valor cap already.
2. They've redesigned the way that tanking and healing works in an effort to make it harder and as a result less people do it. Their effort to make the game more challenging made it less fun.
The playerbase hasn't changed, the game has. The increase in queue times is a reflection of people's dislike of the new design philosophy. It's not that people are stupid or bad or w/e other insult you want to fling at them, it's that they don't want to spend their free time doing something that isn't fun. We didn't experience this problem in WotLK because tanks and healers were more fun to play, in part because they didn't feel so impotent. Tanks and healers didn't get as much abuse either because the frustration level wasn't so high.
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Azure-TheBlueOne  Title: Made in Alaska
Posts: 319
Registered: 2003-2-24 19:25:37
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
4.1 Preview -- Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms |
LOL, and b team turns to bribery to try to get people to play.
Epic.
-----signature-----
"When the government scares people into thinking it must take their liberties away,
and the people let the Government do it.
They are sheep."
- Judge Andrew Napolitano
http://www.leap.cc/cms/index.php |
hostagecat Title: Lord of the Fluffy Death Kittys
Posts: 18
Registered: 2005-3-30 14:57:43
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
4.1 Preview -- Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms |
TruthyID posted:
HunterTalon posted:
I respect your opinion, but are you honestly saying that the protector and healer roles have always been sparsely populated in every game since 1975 is because those roles have never been correctly implemented so as to be fun? Be serious. Tanking is fun and healing is fun (ok this is subjective, I should say I find those roles fun)... the real reason people don't often fill those roles is because they get blamed when something goes wrong. Period.
I would be more apt to believe you if this had been a problem as long as the LFD tool has been out but it hasn't been. The queues times have gone from 10-15 minutes in WotLK to 45 minutes or more in Cataclysm.
There are 2 main differences between then and now.
1. They redesigned the 5 man experience. Heroics take a hell of a lot longer so people are less likely to run more than one per day. Cataclysm heroics are a slog and are less fun than WotLK heroics. Once people have the gear they need out of heroics they're unlikely to return because they're not worth the effort, particularly when they're hitting the valor cap already.
2. They've redesigned the way that tanking and healing works in an effort to make it harder and as a result less people do it. Their effort to make the game more challenging made it less fun.
The playerbase hasn't changed, the game has. The increase in queue times is a reflection of people's dislike of the new design philosophy. It's not that people are stupid or bad or w/e other insult you want to fling at them, it's that they don't want to spend their free time doing something that isn't fun. We didn't experience this problem in WotLK because tanks and healers were more fun to play, in part because they didn't feel so impotent. Tanks and healers didn't get as much abuse either because the frustration level wasn't so high.
Pretty much this....
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Please do not nuzzle the instrument of my vengence-Rok'tar
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siujoey Posts: 280
Registered: 2001-12-26 09:10:44
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
4.1 Preview -- Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms |
hostagecat posted:
TruthyID posted:
HunterTalon posted:
I respect your opinion, but are you honestly saying that the protector and healer roles have always been sparsely populated in every game since 1975 is because those roles have never been correctly implemented so as to be fun? Be serious. Tanking is fun and healing is fun (ok this is subjective, I should say I find those roles fun)... the real reason people don't often fill those roles is because they get blamed when something goes wrong. Period.
I would be more apt to believe you if this had been a problem as long as the LFD tool has been out but it hasn't been. The queues times have gone from 10-15 minutes in WotLK to 45 minutes or more in Cataclysm.
There are 2 main differences between then and now.
1. They redesigned the 5 man experience. Heroics take a hell of a lot longer so people are less likely to run more than one per day. Cataclysm heroics are a slog and are less fun than WotLK heroics. Once people have the gear they need out of heroics they're unlikely to return because they're not worth the effort, particularly when they're hitting the valor cap already.
2. They've redesigned the way that tanking and healing works in an effort to make it harder and as a result less people do it. Their effort to make the game more challenging made it less fun.
The playerbase hasn't changed, the game has. The increase in queue times is a reflection of people's dislike of the new design philosophy. It's not that people are stupid or bad or w/e other insult you want to fling at them, it's that they don't want to spend their free time doing something that isn't fun. We didn't experience this problem in WotLK because tanks and healers were more fun to play, in part because they didn't feel so impotent. Tanks and healers didn't get as much abuse either because the frustration level wasn't so high.
Pretty much this....
+1
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I'm the Dude. So that's what you call me. You know, that or, uh, His Dudeness, or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
4.1 Preview -- Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms |
TruthyID posted:
HunterTalon posted:
I respect your opinion, but are you honestly saying that the protector and healer roles have always been sparsely populated in every game since 1975 is because those roles have never been correctly implemented so as to be fun? Be serious. Tanking is fun and healing is fun (ok this is subjective, I should say I find those roles fun)... the real reason people don't often fill those roles is because they get blamed when something goes wrong. Period.
I would be more apt to believe you if this had been a problem as long as the LFD tool has been out but it hasn't been. The queues times have gone from 10-15 minutes in WotLK to 45 minutes or more in Cataclysm.
There are 2 main differences between then and now.
1. They redesigned the 5 man experience. Heroics take a hell of a lot longer so people are less likely to run more than one per day. Cataclysm heroics are a slog and are less fun than WotLK heroics. Once people have the gear they need out of heroics they're unlikely to return because they're not worth the effort, particularly when they're hitting the valor cap already.
2. They've redesigned the way that tanking and healing works in an effort to make it harder and as a result less people do it. Their effort to make the game more challenging made it less fun.
The playerbase hasn't changed, the game has. The increase in queue times is a reflection of people's dislike of the new design philosophy. It's not that people are stupid or bad or w/e other insult you want to fling at them, it's that they don't want to spend their free time doing something that isn't fun. We didn't experience this problem in WotLK because tanks and healers were more fun to play, in part because they didn't feel so impotent. Tanks and healers didn't get as much abuse either because the frustration level wasn't so high.
QFT
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The VNboards are so much fun! Its like my own personal train wreck going 24/7
and noone is actually getting hurt which takes away the guilt of watching.
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Rill_of_WE Title: WoW Vault Site Manager
Posts: 557
Registered: 2002-8-6 09:16:33
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
4.1 Preview -- Dungeon Finder: Call to Arms |
TruthyID posted:
HunterTalon posted:
I respect your opinion, but are you honestly saying that the protector and healer roles have always been sparsely populated in every game since 1975 is because those roles have never been correctly implemented so as to be fun? Be serious. Tanking is fun and healing is fun (ok this is subjective, I should say I find those roles fun)... the real reason people don't often fill those roles is because they get blamed when something goes wrong. Period.
I would be more apt to believe you if this had been a problem as long as the LFD tool has been out but it hasn't been. The queues times have gone from 10-15 minutes in WotLK to 45 minutes or more in Cataclysm.
There are 2 main differences between then and now.
1. They redesigned the 5 man experience. Heroics take a hell of a lot longer so people are less likely to run more than one per day. Cataclysm heroics are a slog and are less fun than WotLK heroics. Once people have the gear they need out of heroics they're unlikely to return because they're not worth the effort, particularly when they're hitting the valor cap already.
2. They've redesigned the way that tanking and healing works in an effort to make it harder and as a result less people do it. Their effort to make the game more challenging made it less fun.
The playerbase hasn't changed, the game has. The increase in queue times is a reflection of people's dislike of the new design philosophy. It's not that people are stupid or bad or w/e other insult you want to fling at them, it's that they don't want to spend their free time doing something that isn't fun. We didn't experience this problem in WotLK because tanks and healers were more fun to play, in part because they didn't feel so impotent. Tanks and healers didn't get as much abuse either because the frustration level wasn't so high.
And excellent post.
I also agree with Korrigan in that the only thing this is going to do is increase the number of inexperienced people queuing up as their off spec "tank" or "healer" roles. >.<
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