Boone,

You cannot prove that those changes aren't the reason either...


On one hand, we have many many many disgruntled players stating that healing is not fun, the game is not fun, and 45 minutes queues to run an hour dungeon sucks...coupled with a fairly large exodus from the game as reflected in 600k+ lost subs over 3 months....

On the other hand, you are stating that "they cant prove any of the above caused it", but still have a fairly large exodus from the game as reflected in 600k+ lost subs...


One of these sets of "statements" fits with the reality of what is going on, and is shared and stated by literally hundreds if not thousands of people.... the other is flat out denial, uttered by a single person, who demands "proof" yet has none to offer in his own right..


Keep living in denial, and I will keep pointing it out to you

 

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Forgive me if this comes across as baiting/etc. but I think this is a false dichotomy based on an invalid premise. I don't agree that the most common complaint among the entire actual playing population is class balance. We see repeatedly where the forum posts are noted by Blizzard and other games' devs to be a small minority of players. With that in mind, and considering that PVP-centric folks tend to be the most vocal when it comes to perceived class balance issues, I submit that in WoW's case, the overwhelming majority didn't feel like class balance was a major factor. Given the changes in 4.0, let's assume Blizzard added two polls on login that asked players what they thought were the most important factor in their enjoyment of the game:

Poll 1: Of the following activities, which do you enjoy the most (you may choose more than one):
A) PVP (arena, BGs, etc.)
B) Non-PVP activities in general (raids, 5-man instances, crafting, achievements, questing, etc.)
C) Raids
D) 5-man normal and heroics
E) Dailies and quests
F) Crafting
G) Achievements
H) Social activities (RP, etc.)


Poll 2: Of the following areas, which do you consider most important to your continued enjoyment of the game (you may choose more than one):
A) Class balance in solo/1-vs-1 PVP (i.e.: no particular class/spec is "overpowered"
B) Class balance group-vs-group PVP (i.e.: no particular group setup/comp is "overpowered"
C) Class balance in PVE 5-man content (i.e.: every class is roughly equally desirable in groups)
D) Class balance in PVE raid content (i.e.: every class is roughly equally desirable in raids)
E) The ability to choose "hybrid" or split talent choices that do not conform to "cookie-cutter" specifications, even if it makes those choices less powerful at any particular task
F) The feeling of being powerful in instances
G) More complex and engaging spell/ability "rotations" that require significant thought about which spells to use (e.g.: post-4.0)
H) Less complex spell/ability "rotations" that can be fairly easily worked into a combat macro system (e.g.: pre-4.0)
I) More powerful healing abilities
J) Less powerful healing abilities that require more decisions about which spells to use
K) More rewards from 5-man daily normal/heroic quests
L) More accessible raid content (i.e.: easier for pickup groups)
M) Harder 5-man/raid content


I suspect that the results would differ wildly from what we see complained about on the forums and overwhelmingly trend toward accessibility (i.e.: less difficult content), PVE and non-homogenized/nerfed/railroaded talent options. Sadly, even if Blizzard did poll people in-game, you can bet your ass they'd never release the results of the poll.

 

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Nor was I attempting to.





Is it any more that complained about anything else that has changed in the game over the past 7 years?

And again, there is an exodus after every expansion. It just was a 20% larger this past one.

As I already said, there are many different reasons why that could be. You choose to believe it is because healing is not fun anymore or the time needed to complete dungeons. That is fine, but is your belief in those reasons substantiated by anything more than those that believe it is due to competition or age?





So now hundreds or "thousands" of people complaining on the forums represent the millions playing? Haven't there always been hundreds or thousand of people complaining n the forums about something?







Keep on with the "WoW is dying!!!11!" crusade. One of these years you will be right.

 

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The people not on the forums are not complaining are they? So how was my premise inaccurate?

I have known plenty of the "average" World of Warcraft player, the type who don't post on message boards about the game. You know what? None of them gave a sh*t about any of the crap debated ad nauseum on the official or these message boards. In fact had I talked about any of the topics debated on the forums with them they would have looked at me like I was speaking a foreign language.

 

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Denial.

Edit: All it takes to be "right" on any subject here, is to disagree with you Boone


Your logic is THAT flawed

 

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lol unlike you I have no agenda to push. If World of Warcraft shuts down tomorrow I will not think twice about it.

 

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Agenda?


Yet again your fingers type, and ignorance spews forth.

 

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Claiming that the outcome will ultimately be the same no matter how they approach balancing the game is a gross oversimplification.

The question isn't even whether they ought to balance but HOW they ought to approach it. I, for one, think that the way that GC and Co. are going about balancing the classes is detrimental to the enjoyment of the game.

Also, there's a difference between having an "agenda" and having an opinion. There's no movement afoot to bring Blizzard down, there's just a group of dissatisfied customers who think that the current management team (Kotick, GC, et al.) is taking a game that we love in a bad direction.

The funny thing is this 5% that Ghostcrawler mentions is utterly arbitrary and doesn't indicate "balance" being any better at all. Why? Because the raids get designed with that 5% in mind. All that ends up changing is the amount of leeway the design team has to work with. "Balance" is a zero sum mechanic and the "more balanced" you are, the less wiggle room you have and the more the small imbalances actually "matter", leading to the encounter being balanced for that smaller sliver, then people whining for more "equality", the buff and nerf cycle, and then rinse repeat.

So, this entire process is doomed from the start.

The idiots led by king idiot GC think that balance means equality in as many situations as possible. This, plus the related 'bring a player not the class', is responsible for dumbing WoW down to four classes, tank, healer, ranged dps, and melee dps. The supposed "classes" like warlock and mage etc are nothing more than illusions now (in PvE). Thanks to this misguided (read: stupid) policy, people are now interchangeable cogs in the raiding machine.

"Balance" to smarter people than GC, and to most RPGers, is to make sure all classes bring something that isn't replicated by someone else - abilities or powers or whatever - so that everyone feels there are situations where they are valuable rather than just a number. Properly balanced games do not worry about whether or not the warlock is doing equal dps to the mage in the fight, as long as the warlock has situations where he shines and the mage has situations where she does - encounters that make the raid leader go "I'm glad I had that guy with me for that one".

RPGers also know that, when it comes to RPGs, the fun actually comes from the details that come from things NOT being equal. Blizzard doesn't get that. White dragon more vulnerable to fire? Happy fire mages. To Blizzard, this is bad. To them. fire mages shouldn't do more than other mages and all dragons should be the same.

 

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