Date Posted:1/1/00 12:00amSubject:
A Good Summary of Why Blizzard is Hemorrhaging Subscriptions
JaconKin posted: <big post removed to reduce size, see above>
Man, I've seen that kind of speech so many times it's not even remotely funny anymore. I've notably seen it for Age of Conan. New combat system, fantastic, innovative, etc... and great videos to support it, among which many made by beta "fanbois". We both know the result: a mediocre game with piss poor programming at release. Rift also got some great videos with rift bosses before release... result is a pathetic game struggling to survive.
Come on, you're too much a MMO vet to be hyped that way.
And no one more than me wishes to be proved wrong, since GW2 is indeed the most promising "near future" game, but I won't get hyped again on a game to be released in months and which I didn't try myself. I won't pre-order or buy anything before I played it myself and got sucked in, just like I got sucked into WoW in 2004 during beta.
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SWTOR: 50 Jedi Shadow (Tank), 50 Sith Marauder (Annihilation).
LOTRO: Lifetime account, playing very casually.
WoW: Both accounts canceled for now.
GW2: Future Warrior.
Date Posted:1/1/00 12:00amSubject:
A Good Summary of Why Blizzard is Hemorrhaging Subscriptions
GutterSludge posted: The only problem with this is that many many players refuse to do at least one of the 3 above.
Either they hate the "guild-for-gear" mentality..
or they refuse to schedule "fun"...
or could give a rats ass about the latest raid...
QFT
All 3 apply to me and were part of the reason I just canceled my sub the other day. Blizzard has made it pretty clear that the way I want to spend my time playing their game isn't acceptable.
The last straw for was been how completely screwed up the class balance is in PvP. It was my last bastion of casual play and now that's been ruined by how ridiculous frost mages, ferals, DKs, and resto shaman have gotten.
Date Posted:1/1/00 12:00amSubject:
A Good Summary of Why Blizzard is Hemorrhaging Subscriptions
The_Korrigan posted:
JaconKin posted: <big post removed to reduce size, see above>
Man, I've seen that kind of speech so many times it's not even remotely funny anymore. I've notably seen it for Age of Conan. New combat system, fantastic, innovative, etc... and great videos to support it, among which many made by beta "fanbois". We both know the result: a mediocre game with piss poor programming at release. Rift also got some great videos with rift bosses before release... result is a pathetic game struggling to survive.
Come on, you're too much a MMO vet to be hyped that way.
And no one more than me wishes to be proved wrong, since GW2 is indeed the most promising "near future" game, but I won't get hyped again on a game to be released in months and which I didn't try myself. I won't pre-order or buy anything before I played it myself and got sucked in, just like I got sucked into WoW in 2004 during beta.
]
I'm a video game Vet of 28 years, have followed the industry for many years across all genre types, have gotten hyped for many games during that time only to be let down, most notable among those were Fable and WAR. So, I'm all to aware of becoming jaded as a gamer by buying into the hype. Trust me, I have been burned before, and do my best to avoid the hype machine actually. As far as a MMO Vet, figuring I have only played 2 games, and part of a third, I'm not sure if that is a proper terminology.
Thankfully I guess I haven't been burned in the MMO market as much as some, and such am not as Jaded as some when you keep hearing well this will be the next big thing, time after time. I guess the main reason for this is two, first is the simple fact that as is always the case, most of these MMOs once you strip them down play like WoW, which is based off of Everquest. The other is the simple fact that the two games I have played, LOTRO and WoW, I know something of the Lore and is the main reason that attracted me to play those games. I know nothing of the GW 2 Lore, so it has to do something else to get me into its game, which it has. The same can be said of TOR, I know the Star Wars lore and it is the ONLY reason I have any interest in it, if it wasn't Star Wars and was Sci Fi MMO number 5 or any of these other Fantasy MMOs out there, there is no reason for me be interested in the game. Especially after watching videos of the game there is nothing besides it being Star Wars for me to be excited about, because it looks like it will play similar to all these other MMOs out there.
I'm also sure you are aware of how much I enjoy to analyze matters when it comes to games and gaming. Anyway, since I want to go out for a walk on this nice day, I'll cut this short. Yes, you bring up some fine examples of games that have done this previously, as have I. Yet, what it boils down to is that from my many years of watching and following the entire video game industry, with many various games in development, from what I have seen in the videos of players playing the game and what arena net has shown off as well, that very rarely have I seen many games that look the way Guild Wars 2 currently looks. With TOR now, if you said what you did, I would be right behind you, there is nothing in that game that impresses me, beyond it being Star Wars, nothing that excites me, I don't see it being the next big thing, similar to how previous WoW clones have claimed that title that you keeps getting brought up.
Could I be wrong and could you be right, most certainly, but right now I haven't seen anything otherwise through videos and what not that is showing me to expect a repeat of previous MMOs. We'll see won't we though down the line.
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Looking Forward to Guild Wars 2 and serving crow.
Currenlty Writing: The Web of Life.
Date Posted:1/1/00 12:00amSubject:
A Good Summary of Why Blizzard is Hemorrhaging Subscriptions
The-Sofa-King posted:
GutterSludge posted: I could keep going on and on. Blizzard wants EVERYONE to be in a guild, devote 3 to 4 nights a week RAIDING, and love every damned minute of it....
I raid 1 night a week with a guild that isn't even my own. We've cleared 5/7 in Firelands at the moment. Sure, it's been cleared before, by people raiding more than 1 night a week, but you can devote a single night a week to raiding and still be successful in the current raiding system.
You still aren't playing the way Blizzard wants you to. I never said it was impossible, I just said that people won't.
Quote my entire post next time, so I won't have to point that out.
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Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"ea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
Spookysheep Title: Lieker of Cheese Posts: 1,248 Registered: 2002-1-9 06:49:19
Date Posted:1/1/00 12:00amSubject:
A Good Summary of Why Blizzard is Hemorrhaging Subscriptions
The-Sofa-King posted: I raid 1 night a week with a guild that isn't even my own. We've cleared 5/7 in Firelands at the moment. Sure, it's been cleared before, by people raiding more than 1 night a week, but you can devote a single night a week to raiding and still be successful in the current raiding system.
But you do realize that by your own statement, you are being completely carried by someone else's guild, who did all the work before you got there, and therefore your experience in no way even remotely mimics about, oh, 99% of WoW players, right?
In the scenario you just described, you are not successful in the current raiding system, another guild is successful and they are handing you a free raid slot and free welfare epics
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I liek cheese
Pirates > Ninjas
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Out of those videos for the two games, which one looks more epic and exciting, and which one looks like its more ready to release?
Sorry.. the Dragon fight looks just like anything out of any other raid boss fight in WoW or Rift.. long drawn out snooze fest. The Worgen Mage (yes, I said it) basically wandered around the boss and used the same 2 spells over and over (I know he used a couple of other skills..but really 95% were the same 2). Screams WOW mage to me. They added a [tos_profanity]-ton of pretty lights and cool sound effects (which will get as stale as 3 week old Mag'har Grainbread after a while).
Didnt watch the Star Wars video.. less than zero interest.
The thief "gunplay" video was evidence actually supporting the fact that this game looks like the same ole same ole to me. Shoot and walk backwards until your target dies.. wow.. riveting innovation!
Im sorry if you watched it and got something more out of it. I know that its just a couple of videos from a much larger game experience.. but I hope these videos werent pulled as evidence of the huge steps forward coming to the genre. They actually left me very disheartened.
PS. My disparaging comments pertained to what I perceived from the videos.. not your feelings in particular.
Date Posted:1/1/00 12:00amSubject:
A Good Summary of Why Blizzard is Hemorrhaging Subscriptions
Spookysheep posted:
The-Sofa-King posted: I raid 1 night a week with a guild that isn't even my own. We've cleared 5/7 in Firelands at the moment. Sure, it's been cleared before, by people raiding more than 1 night a week, but you can devote a single night a week to raiding and still be successful in the current raiding system.
But you do realize that by your own statement, you are being completely carried by someone else's guild, who did all the work before you got there, and therefore your experience in no way even remotely mimics about, oh, 99% of WoW players, right?
In the scenario you just described, you are not successful in the current raiding system, another guild is successful and they are handing you a free raid slot and free welfare epics
Ow, my sides. Had me chuckling hard on that one.
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WoW and DAoC - Too many alts to count
Charter Member - Altaholics Anonymous
Date Posted:1/1/00 12:00amSubject:
A Good Summary of Why Blizzard is Hemorrhaging Subscriptions
Spookysheep posted:
The-Sofa-King posted: I raid 1 night a week with a guild that isn't even my own. We've cleared 5/7 in Firelands at the moment. Sure, it's been cleared before, by people raiding more than 1 night a week, but you can devote a single night a week to raiding and still be successful in the current raiding system.
But you do realize that by your own statement, you are being completely carried by someone else's guild, who did all the work before you got there, and therefore your experience in no way even remotely mimics about, oh, 99% of WoW players, right?
In the scenario you just described, you are not successful in the current raiding system, another guild is successful and they are handing you a free raid slot and free welfare epics
Hehe, reminds me of how I got my first LK kill. Our guild was very small, we had 1 core progression raiding group, a second group of lower geared replacements, and then our alts. We had only managed to get past Sindy for the longest time. We had to have wiped on the LK dozens of times. We had a pinch-hit healer from another guild we did a lot of PvP with that ran with us on numerous of our attempts. One night when we were set to try and down the LK again, something came up that prevented several guildies from showing up so we scrubbed the run. I was locked to the LK and the reset was later that morning so I figured I was screwed when I got a whisper from the healer in the other guild. Said their SP had to bail so could I come help out on the LK. Showing up the next day with the Kingslayer title caused some very colorful guild chat
But I did have the decency to show up with all my flasks, made the feasts for the raid, knew the fight inside/out, had my own gear and passed on LK loot so as not to take anything from the other guilds work. I guess this would qualify me for getting a welfare title
Date Posted:1/1/00 12:00amSubject:
A Good Summary of Why Blizzard is Hemorrhaging Subscriptions
Fedup23 posted: Sorry.. the Dragon fight looks just like anything out of any other raid boss fight in WoW or Rift.. long drawn out snooze fest. The Worgen Mage (yes, I said it) basically wandered around the boss and used the same 2 spells over and over (I know he used a couple of other skills..but really 95% were the same 2). Screams WOW mage to me.
Some key features to understand about GW2, first is that the first 2 bars on your skills bar equals main hand weapons, the 3 skill is a combo main hand and off hand, the next two skills are off hand skills. The 6 skill is your self heal, all classes have a self heal, the next 3 buttons are utility skills and the last button is an Ultimate Skill of some type.
Now as an elementalist you actually get four different attunments that can be switched to on the fly, Fire, Earth, Water, and Air. These can be switched to at any time during combat, unlike WoW where if you spec down one tree you are set pretty much using Fire, Arcane, or Frost. Also, all skills can be used while on the move, there is no interrupts or standing around while waiting for a goofy bar to fill up. You can be as active as you want in combat, the Shatter video wasn't done to show off exact elements of gameplay, it was done to show of the quality you see in the game itself for the most part.
fedup posted:
Quote: They added a [tos_quoted violation]-ton of pretty lights and cool sound effects (which will get as stale as 3 week old Mag'har Grainbread after a while).
Umm, that wasn't a raid boss, that was an open world boss that takes place after a Dynamic Event Chain. I don't have the time nor the patience to go into the finer points of Dynamic events. Yet, basically, once you complete a Dynamic Event Chain to it conclusion, in this case injuring the Dragon you saw them fighting. I am not sure if that dragon actually gets killed or injured. Anyway, regardless of what happens there, once that event is done, it will not be a rinse and repeat. That event might take 1 week, 2 weeks, or a month before you see him come back. The world in GW2 changes constantly. This isn't some stupid trick done with phasing as well. An event will eventually reset, but its not going to reset everyday, or after so many hours.
So in the end, no it won't get stale after three weeks, because you might not see it again until three weeks later, or even three months.
fedup posted:
Quote: The thief "gunplay" video was evidence actually supporting the fact that this game looks like the same ole same ole to me. Shoot and walk backwards until your target dies.. wow.. riveting innovation!
Im sorry if you watched it and got something more out of it. I know that its just a couple of videos from a much larger game experience.. but I hope these videos werent pulled as evidence of the huge steps forward coming to the genre. They actually left me very disheartened.
What is important to note here is that almost all classes, except elementalists and perhaps engineers, have 2 different weapon sets, that when you switch to them, will allow for a different set of skills to open up, based upon the design of the skill bar they have implemented. So as a thief I can go in melee, dodge out of melee range, switch over to the double pistol and open up a barrage on the mob. You will not be playing wack a mole like in WoW and other MMOs. Combat is going to be very very active, because apparently if you stand there and play whack a mole, you will die, I have seen it in other videos. Every class gets the dodge ability, every class has a self heal, every class has support skills. There are no tank, no healer, no DPS. Unlike what WoW wanted to do with Wrath were it was about just bring the player, GW 2 is attempting to achieve this by having no defined class roles. It will be truly about, just bring the player.
Anyway, nere goes a very good interview done as far as how this dynamic of weapon swapping and changing main hand and offhand abilities relates to just one class, the necromancer.
Interview posted:
Quote: NecroBator: Speaking of combat roles, let’s talk about one of my new favorite subjects: necro tanking. What kind of build would you use to fulfill that role in combat as a necro?
Colin: So the real front lines guy, in my mind, is Axe and Warhorn. This is the true melee, holding down the front as a necromancer. You can do it with just about any of the weapon sets to be honest, but you get up there and get your bone minions rolling and your flesh wurm helping to hold the front line.
Then you’ve got your Wail of Doom and this just bleeds, dazes, poisons and weakens everybody around you. And then you’ve got Locust Swarm, and everybody around you, you’re stealing life from them also. Then you’ve got Unholy Feast that cripples and damages everybody around you.
So you run in and you pop your Unholy Feast and everybody is crippled and they’re not getting away from you, and then you can use the other two skills and just start draining life like crazy on everyone around you, and your minions are right in there tearing them apart.
All of the sudden you’re right up there on the front line. Then you go into Death Shroud and do Life Transfer and start stealing life from everybody around you again.
So it makes you a brutal front line character. Warhorn as the off-hand is kind of the key to that, and the axe is a great main hand weapon. You can kind of do it with anything, but the axe is nice because you’ve got Unholy Feast on skill 3, so you’ve got another point-blank AoE skill available to you.
And that’s just one of those situations where this class just plays completely differently with some different weapon sets. Even when it’s up close doing something it feels like a necromancer regardless because of all the life stealing and the pets you’ve got up there and everything.
Take a minute for that to settle in, and the many various options that opens up, as far as what you can do in combat, how that effects strategy and everything else involved with it. This doesn't take into consideration your ability to appoint 2 points of attributes each time you level up to either of these four categories:
Power — increases attack
Precision — increases critical hit chance
Toughness — increases defense
Vitality — increases maximum health
Instead of just being assigned what Blizzard, or some other MMO, decides to give you each level, you actually determine this. Which harkens back to actually how RPGs got started in the first place, whether that be Pen and Paper, or video game RPGs.
Last but not least is that Traits system that will see you being able to find and acquire 100 different traits, based solely on your class that require you actually explore and do class specific things that makes sense for your class to be doing.
A trait is an ability that can be equipped by a player to provide passive ongoing effects. Traits can be used to boost a character's attributes, reduce the effects of conditions, improve the effects of skills, and more. Traits are determined by profession as well as the weapon held. There are around 100 traits per profession.[1]
Each trait has a type: major, indicated by an eight-pointed star icon, or minor, indicated by a hexagonal icon. A trait also belongs to a trait line, or a profession-based grouping of traits. Each profession has several trait lines. There are two types of trait line: general trait lines and weapon trait lines. General traits boost attributes or particular skill types, while weapon traits boost or give additional abilities to weapon skills.
Here goes a Trait Screen for the Engineer Class:
Very similar to Glyphs, but very very different as well, I would put it more akin to the actual Path of Titans that got scrapped from Cata.
You actually determine how you build your character how you see fit, by weapon types, by your attribute point distribution, and by what traits you decide to equip. Everything once more, is about options and how you want to play, not being forced fed down a 31 point talent tree, or any talent tree for that matter.
This is just a few of the matters that GW 2 is doing different and why I'm excited for what they are trying to do with the genre. As I said, once you begin reading more and more, watching the videos were you see them showing these elements off so they aren't talking out of their butts. Unlike some, I have grown quite a thick skin, any disparaging comments about the game are welcomed, because it then allows me to do more of the above and talk about more aspects of the game that might not be known.
Edit: Damn IGN's Archaic Boards.
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Looking Forward to Guild Wars 2 and serving crow.
Currenlty Writing: The Web of Life.
ea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
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