Date Posted:1/1/00 12:00amSubject:
Obamacare going before Supreme Court Tomorrow
Quote: The concept of the individual health insurance mandate is considered to have originated in 1989 at the conservative Heritage Foundation. In 1993, Republicans twice introduced health care bills that contained an individual health insurance mandate. Advocates for those bills included prominent Republicans who today oppose the mandate including Orrin Hatch (R-UT), Charles Grassley (R-IA), Robert Bennett (R-UT), and Christopher Bond (R-MO). In 2007, Democrats and Republicans introduced a bi-partisan bill containing the mandate.
Newt..." “I am for people, individuals — exactly like automobile insurance — individuals having health insurance and being required to have health insurance.â€"
Romneycare, of course, is the model for Obamacare.
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“Science is like sex: sometimes something useful comes out, but that is not the reason we are doing it.†– Richard Feynman
Date Posted:1/1/00 12:00amSubject:
Obamacare going before Supreme Court Tomorrow
And?
Obamacare still sucks and it's still unconstitutional.
The fact that some Republicans are hypocrites doesn't make it any less so. You don't get to keep an unconstitutional law because Republicans are hypocrites.
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"Everyone has a chance to become rich." - Groucho48
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Date Posted:1/1/00 12:00amSubject:
Obamacare going before Supreme Court Tomorrow
It's not unconstitutional. Republicans didn't think it was unconstitutional until they decided their only chance to defeat Obamacare was an activist Court.
Health insurance is commerce and the Feds have the power to regulate interstate commerce. That has long been established. There is no question that the Feds can institute national health care. That, too, has been long established. Think of Medicare. The Feds also have whatever powers they need to make their constitutional health insurance program work. That also has been long found to be constitutional. Obamacare cannot work without an individual mandate. (Or by an option like the public option that allows those opposed to being forced to buy private insurance to buy public insurance.) Therefore, since the rest of Obamacare is legitimate, and the mandate is necessary to make Obamacare work, the mandate is constitutional.
All this is long settled law. It would take a very activist Court to overturn decades of precedents and rulings to find the mandate unconstitutional. OIf course, we have one of the most activist Courts in history, so, who knows what will happen?
Quote: The authority to enact laws necessary and proper for the regulation of interstate commerce is not limited to laws governing intrastate activities that substantially affect interstate commerce. Where necessary to make a regulation of interstate commerce effective, Congress may regulate even those intrastate activities that do not themselves substantially affect interstate commerce.
.
.
.Our cases show that the regulation of intrastate activities may be necessary to and proper for the regulation of interstate commerce in two general circumstances. Most directly, the commerce power permits Congress not only to devise rules for the governance of commerce between States but also to facilitate interstate commerce by eliminating potential obstructions, and to restrict it by eliminating potential stimulants. See NLRB v. Jones & Laughlin Steel Corp., 301 U.S. 1, 36—37 (1937). That is why the Court has repeatedly sustained congressional legislation on the ground that the regulated activities had a substantial effect on interstate commerce. See, e.g., Hodel, supra, at 281 (surface coal mining); Katzenbach, supra, at 300 (discrimination by restaurants); Heart of Atlanta Motel, Inc. v. United States, 379 U.S. 241, 258 (1964) (discrimination by hotels); Mandeville Island Farms v. American Crystal Sugar Co., 334 U.S. 219, 237 (1948) (intrastate price-fixing); Board of Trade of Chicago v. Olsen, 262 U.S. 1, 40 (1923) (activities of a local grain exchange); Stafford v. Wallace, 258 U.S. 495, 517, 524—525 (1922) (intrastate transactions at stockyard). Lopez and Morrison recognized the expansive scope of Congress’s authority in this regard: “[T]he pattern is clear. Where economic activity substantially affects interstate commerce, legislation regulating that activity will be sustained.†Lopez, supra, at 560; Morrison, supra, at 610 (same).
(…)
The regulation of an intrastate activity may be essential to a comprehensive regulation of interstate commerce even though the intrastate activity does not itself “substantially affect†interstate commerce. Moreover, as the passage from Lopez quoted above suggests, Congress may regulate even noneconomic local activity if that regulation is a necessary part of a more general regulation of interstate commerce. See Lopez, supra, at 561. The relevant question is simply whether the means chosen are “reasonably adapted†to the attainment of a legitimate end under the commerce power. See Darby, supra, at 121.
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“Science is like sex: sometimes something useful comes out, but that is not the reason we are doing it.†– Richard Feynman
IMHO Title: Official Outpost Greeter Posts: 2,287 Registered: 2001-11-1 03:55:02
Date Posted:1/1/00 12:00amSubject:
Obamacare going before Supreme Court Tomorrow
Is it televised?
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You're Right ~ Koneg
He's [Manegarm] like the Fred Phelps of atheism. ~Bubbledude
many of you are in the Republican boat, aka the ship of fools. ~Modeeb
We are here on Earth to fart around. Don't let anybody tell you any different. ~Kurt Vonnegut
IMHO Title: Official Outpost Greeter Posts: 2,287 Registered: 2001-11-1 03:55:02
Date Posted:1/1/00 12:00amSubject:
Obamacare going before Supreme Court Tomorrow
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You're Right ~ Koneg
He's [Manegarm] like the Fred Phelps of atheism. ~Bubbledude
many of you are in the Republican boat, aka the ship of fools. ~Modeeb
We are here on Earth to fart around. Don't let anybody tell you any different. ~Kurt Vonnegut
Date Posted:1/1/00 12:00amSubject:
Obamacare going before Supreme Court Tomorrow
Groucho48 posted: It's not unconstitutional. Republicans didn't think it was unconstitutional until they decided their only chance to defeat Obamacare was an activist Court.
Health insurance is commerce and the Feds have the power to regulate interstate commerce. That has long been established. There is no question that the Feds can institute national health care. That, too, has been long established. Think of Medicare. The Feds also have whatever powers they need to make their constitutional health insurance program work. That also has been long found to be constitutional. Obamacare cannot work without an individual mandate. (Or by an option like the public option that allows those opposed to being forced to buy private insurance to buy public insurance.) Therefore, since the rest of Obamacare is legitimate, and the mandate is necessary to make Obamacare work, the mandate is constitutional.
All this is long settled law. It would take a very activist Court to overturn decades of precedents and rulings to find the mandate unconstitutional. OIf course, we have one of the most activist Courts in history, so, who knows what will happen?
Quote: The authority to enact laws necessary and proper for the regulation of interstate commerce is not limited to laws governing intrastate activities that substantially affect interstate commerce. Where necessary to make a regulation of interstate commerce effective, Congress may regulate even those intrastate activities that do not themselves substantially affect interstate commerce.
.
.
.Our cases show that the regulation of intrastate activities may be necessary to and proper for the regulation of interstate commerce in two general circumstances. Most directly, the commerce power permits Congress not only to devise rules for the governance of commerce between States but also to facilitate interstate commerce by eliminating potential obstructions, and to restrict it by eliminating potential stimulants. See NLRB v. Jones & Laughlin Steel Corp., 301 U.S. 1, 36—37 (1937). That is why the Court has repeatedly sustained congressional legislation on the ground that the regulated activities had a substantial effect on interstate commerce. See, e.g., Hodel, supra, at 281 (surface coal mining); Katzenbach, supra, at 300 (discrimination by restaurants); Heart of Atlanta Motel, Inc. v. United States, 379 U.S. 241, 258 (1964) (discrimination by hotels); Mandeville Island Farms v. American Crystal Sugar Co., 334 U.S. 219, 237 (1948) (intrastate price-fixing); Board of Trade of Chicago v. Olsen, 262 U.S. 1, 40 (1923) (activities of a local grain exchange); Stafford v. Wallace, 258 U.S. 495, 517, 524—525 (1922) (intrastate transactions at stockyard). Lopez and Morrison recognized the expansive scope of Congress’s authority in this regard: “[T]he pattern is clear. Where economic activity substantially affects interstate commerce, legislation regulating that activity will be sustained.†Lopez, supra, at 560; Morrison, supra, at 610 (same).
(…)
The regulation of an intrastate activity may be essential to a comprehensive regulation of interstate commerce even though the intrastate activity does not itself “substantially affect†interstate commerce. Moreover, as the passage from Lopez quoted above suggests, Congress may regulate even noneconomic local activity if that regulation is a necessary part of a more general regulation of interstate commerce. See Lopez, supra, at 561. The relevant question is simply whether the means chosen are “reasonably adapted†to the attainment of a legitimate end under the commerce power. See Darby, supra, at 121.
Does Medicare give you a tax penalty if you don't use it or buy the supplements?
JarkeldRuneblade Title: THAT guy Posts: 32 Registered: 2002-9-21 14:39:50
Date Posted:1/1/00 12:00amSubject:
Obamacare going before Supreme Court Tomorrow
The Supreme Court has never been televised.
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Scarecrow: I haven't got a brain... only straw.
Dorothy: How can you talk if you haven't got a brain?
Scarecrow: I don't know... But some people without brains do an awful lot of talking... don't they?
Dorothy: Yes, I guess you're right.
JarkeldRuneblade Title: THAT guy Posts: 32 Registered: 2002-9-21 14:39:50
Date Posted:1/1/00 12:00amSubject:
Obamacare going before Supreme Court Tomorrow
So I got curious and looked back at old posts from around the time the bill passed the House and Senate. Very little (if any) talk about the constitutionality of the legislation.
The talking points were different, mostly about death panels, shoving it down the American peoples throats, giving healthcare to illegal immigrants, etc. The constitutionality seemed to be a later talking point.
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Scarecrow: I haven't got a brain... only straw.
Dorothy: How can you talk if you haven't got a brain?
Scarecrow: I don't know... But some people without brains do an awful lot of talking... don't they?
Dorothy: Yes, I guess you're right.