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Topic:
Trayvon Martin was punching Zimmerman in the head [Locked] |
Z-Elder  Posts: 671
Registered: 2002-3-15 13:58:39
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:03am
Subject:
Trayvon Martin was punching Zimmerman in the head |
Ardenwolfe posted:
Z-Elder posted:
I also can not imagine they authorized him to carry a gun, but I also do not see how that matters in this case.
Well . . . the state and national HOA recommends he not carry a weapon for this exact reason. The other way it matters is because a 17-year old is dead. If Zimmerman didn't have the gun, the victim wouldn't be dead. It's hypothetical to argue that Martin could have beat Zimmerman to death with his fists, but it's not hypothetical to say that Zimmerman's bullet could have killed Martin.
Because that's what happened.
Yes and Martins family may well win their Civil case against the HOA for that property, but so far I see no criminal case.
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"The poison of our ordinary habits has killed the magic of the moment"
"Men are not in hell because God is angry with them . . .
they stand in the state of division and separation which by their own motion, they have made for themselves"
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Ardenwolfe  Title: All Knowing Grammar Police
Posts: 499
Registered: 2002-12-11 14:47:24
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:03am
Subject:
Trayvon Martin was punching Zimmerman in the head |
I guess we'll see, but I disagree as far as no criminal case. If nothing else, it should be put to trial and all the evidence placed forward for a jury to decide.
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Sanctimonious know-it-all.
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Koneg Title: Evil Genius
Posts: 894
Registered: 2001-12-4 15:31:28
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:03am
Subject:
Trayvon Martin was punching Zimmerman in the head |
Z-Elder posted:
How does what a 911 operator says have any weight on what someone does on private property that you are watching for others?
It goes to the issue of what a "reasonable and prudent" person might decide to do given the same set of circumstances Zimmerman was in.
If a reasonable and prudent person, which a 911 operator certainly qualifies as, is telling you that what you're doing is a Bad Idea and you continue to do it anyway then trying to claim self-defense after that is going to be exceedingly difficult.
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* First rule of a gun fight: Have a gun.
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"Any sufficiently advanced idiocy is
indistinguishable from trolling." -- Arthur C Clarke
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Z-Elder Posts: 671
Registered: 2002-3-15 13:58:39
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:03am
Subject:
Trayvon Martin was punching Zimmerman in the head |
Koneg posted:
Z-Elder posted:
How does what a 911 operator says have any weight on what someone does on private property that you are watching for others?
It goes to the issue of what a "reasonable and prudent" person might decide to do given the same set of circumstances Zimmerman was in.
If a reasonable and prudent person, which a 911 operator certainly qualifies as, is telling you that what you're doing is a Bad Idea and you continue to do it anyway then trying to claim self-defense after that is going to be exceedingly difficult.
but the cops that arrive love it if you have kept the people in sight and make it easier for them to find the perp. Been at this 30 years and I can't think of many times where the guards just let an unknown wander on the propety they are protecting. What if that guy then does a home invasion? Jacks a car? I had one case where the perp Jacked a guys car with his wife in it while trying to get away.
Point is we have to wait and see if more info comes in. Mean while guys like me are talking about this with staff every day now.
-----signature-----
"The poison of our ordinary habits has killed the magic of the moment"
"Men are not in hell because God is angry with them . . .
they stand in the state of division and separation which by their own motion, they have made for themselves"
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Groucho48 Posts: 821
Registered: 2003-10-22 03:00:14
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:03am
Subject:
Trayvon Martin was punching Zimmerman in the head |
There's a difference between actual armed guards, who, hopefully, have plenty of training, and a volunteer in an unofficial watch club. Even so, I would bet that the police would NOT want a guard to chase a suspicious character alone at night.
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“Science is like sex: sometimes something useful comes out, but that is not the reason we are doing it.†– Richard Feynman
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Ashmaele  Title: Pastor of Muppets
Posts: 1,809
Registered: 2002-1-15 08:30:50
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:03am
Subject:
Trayvon Martin was punching Zimmerman in the head |
lol Zimmerman's lawyer just pussied out of an interview with Lawrence O'Donnell
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I had a dream. It was an incredible dream. When I awoke, I had a huge mess to clean up.
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Groucho48 Posts: 821
Registered: 2003-10-22 03:00:14
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:03am
Subject:
Trayvon Martin was punching Zimmerman in the head |
Yukishiro1 posted:
Groucho48 posted:
Yukishiro1 posted:
There's no doubt Zimmerman is a racist douchebag idiot who went around following black people because they were black.
But that's sorta neither here nor there when it comes to whether it was self defense.
If Martin felt threatened by a guy with a gun who gets out of an SUV to follow him, doesn't Stand Your Ground apply to any actions he might take?
Of course not. You have to be in imminent fear of death or serious bodily injury. Some guy following you doesn't fit the bill.
If he was waving around his gun it'd be different. But I haven't seen anything saying he did anything with his gun until they started wrestling on the ground.
Well, that's because Zimmerman killed the only witness. But, I thought under this Florida law, if you felt threatened, you could defend yourself with deadly force. If I had been Martin, I would have felt threatened if some guy with a gun got out of his SUV and started following me.
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“Science is like sex: sometimes something useful comes out, but that is not the reason we are doing it.†– Richard Feynman
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reesescups Title: //Captain America
Posts: 2,537
Registered: 2003-5-26 14:45:53
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:03am
Subject:
Trayvon Martin was punching Zimmerman in the head |
Ardenwolfe posted:
Wow. Really? Please reread my previous post. And you're Vault staff? That's a damn shame.
Yo retard - I've already bolded your crap like more than a few times. Do you know how to read at all?
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"man up, you wimp." - Groucho48
"I'm not racist at all." - dae_trist
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GrilledCheez Title: The Lord's Balls
Posts: 1,060
Registered: 2006-3-22 11:06:32
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:03am
Subject:
Trayvon Martin was punching Zimmerman in the head |
These are very fact specific cases, and a lawyer with the primary witness being dead would be stupid to say anything on TV.
there is clearly some evidence that the guy was afraid. Whether or not he instigated the encounter, the length of the encounter, ensuing encounters and the violent content of each will all play into whether or not he should be acquitted. And the state will need some pretty damning testimony, to get by what we have already heard from witnesses.
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Another word for expensive is successful.
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Yukishiro1 Posts: 3,243
Registered: 2002-9-20 23:52:57
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:03am
Subject:
Trayvon Martin was punching Zimmerman in the head |
Groucho48 posted:
But, I thought under this Florida law, if you felt threatened, you could defend yourself with deadly force. If I had been Martin, I would have felt threatened if some guy with a gun got out of his SUV and started following me.
threatened with imminent death or serious bodily injury.
some guy following you and being racist towards you =\= being threatened with imminent death or bodily injury.
some guy following you with a gun out waving it around being racist towards you probably = being threatend with imminent death or bodily injury.
although if some guy is waving a gun around at you you have to be grade-A retarded to charge him and try to punch him out.
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