I am arguing less about what will hold up in court and more about reasonableness and reality. It is pretty obvious that her statement will carry less weight than, say, eyewitness testimony would because she's not an eyewitness ldo.

Even if you completely discount the girlfriend's testimony, what we have is a situation where, in a split second, GZ goes from chasing-bad-guy mode ("These ******* ***** always get away" whatever the hell he said) to being chased himself by TM. TM obviously was trying to get away from GZ. This much cannot be rationally disputed, and if you accept this (clearly some here do not) then you have to wonder how this confrontation ever happens at all. Why would a guy running AWAY from conflict decide to instead make a 180 and run TOWARD conflict? It just does not add up.

And, the fact that GZ got his ass kicked (which is pretty much undisputed at this point) does not make GZ innocent or mean that GZ was defending himself.

 

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It is hearsay but anything Travyon was actually saying to her will come in under one of the hearsay exceptions. I don't know what they call it in florida but it'd be something like present sense impression.


Also, probable cause doesn't mean you have to have admissible evidence. It means you have probable cause. You don't get into whether the evidence is admissible or not until later.


It is not ultimately all that important though. We know Zimmerman was following Martin because Zimmerman himself admitted it. We know where was a confrontation and Martin ended up dead.


What we don't know - and the girlfriend's testimony doesn't really tell us - is who started the physical confrontation.

I think Zimmerman is a smarmy jackass who was too into being a neighborhood watch person. He is guilty of being a raging douche bag if not something else. It has nothing to do with believing him or Trayvon's girlfriend.

You will note I don't not mention Zimmerman's story as evidence exonerating him because his words alone are meaningless, they prove nothing.

The only thing I point to is that there is an eyewitness who can corroborate one of the most important parts of the case and that was that George Zimmerman was being beaten up to the point the witness yelled "Stop it" and called 911. That witness on a witness stand pretty much destroys anything else I have seen from either side as it pertains to self defense. There is more than reasonable doubt provided by the eye witness. This is why two prosecutors have reviewed the case and *so far* decided they can't win a case of murder, manslaughter or anything.

That's it.

 

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-nods-

I was just airing some thoughts, not directed at you per-sae. Unfortunately we don't know Martin's mindset. One clue we have is his girlfriend said he explicitly said he was not going to run. Zimmerman said he was running, so we just don't know what he was thinking. He may not have been afraid of Zimmerman at all, he may have been pissed that he was being followed.

One thing I've wondered, is how close was Martin to his home. Why didn't he just go inside? Why didn't he call the cops? Did he retreat towards his home initially? Or come away from his home to confront Zimmerman. Did Zimmerman see him at the entrance of the community and pursue him to the doorsteps of his home and kill him? I'd like to see a lay out of the community and some positional points of how things went down.

 

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One guy was following another guy with the intent to confront him.


Black box.


The guy who was following the other guy is on the ground getting beat up because he's actually a fat weakling.


Fat weakling shoots the other guy.


That's what we have. What is important is what happened in the black box. If the fat weakling started the physical fight he wasn't acting in self defense. If he didn't he was.

Actually you pretty much have to believe him in order not to charge him, since he is the one claiming self defense.





And I'll say again, "losing a fight" is not grounds for justifiable homicide, especially if you are the one who instigated the fight. And unless you believe GZ there is no way to say that he didn't instigate the fight. And these "open and shut" eyewitnesses you keep mentioning aren't saying that TM attacked GZ.

 

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Professional audio analysis says it's pretty much a scientific certainty that the voice is not Zimmerman....and the deniers blow past that like it's meaningless.

I call you as cherry picking and you respond with even more agregious and downright ridiculous more of the same.

Let me know when you are ready to deal with reality again folks.

 

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Yeah, I agree with ya here. Her testimony can have some value, but I'm not sure how much will be admissible. The last part about the confrontation is the key, and in that we have no evidence other than Zimmerman's word so far. I think that's the main reason why this was kept from court so far.

 

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In this week's Time Magazine there was an article on the TM case and they said all the Florida Prosecutor's hate the stupid law and... surprise... justifiable homicides have gone way up in FL. Not necessarily because people were deservedly killed but because they can't prosecute.

 

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It's the prosecution's burden to disprove self defense. Zimmerman doesn't have to do anything if they don't make their case.


That said, it's enough for them to just say "he was following the guy, they got into a fight, Martin got shot." Given everything we know about Zimmerman the fact that he was following Martin and using racial slurs and refused to stop following Martin is really enough to show he was the one who started the confrontation. People get convicted of murder on more flimsy evidence all the time.