EuphoricAnguish posted:
ArcApt posted:
Plus the warden is undeniably an underpowered character in a 8-man dynamic, thus would it fit very well in this context, in my opinion.
Um ... no, they're not.
ArcApt posted:
Improving the damage from this class seems far from stupid to me as long as 8-man is concerned.
Wardens are a healing hybrid, not a Hero; play them as intended and stop trying to be a damage dealer.
1.Wardens are a TERTIARY healing hybrid. Other tertiary healing hybrids are: Valkyrie and Heretic. Valks do a truckload of damage with a 2H spear, even good damage with a 1hander, Heretic is a quasi-mage, with better damage capability than a warden if they spec melee.
2. Hib groups need a warden. They just do, because of 3 spells, which are the resist buffs, crucial since mid got the suppr baseline nuke and most CCs being on the body-resist. Not because of the BG which more powerful classes provide, not because of celerity which we've played without for years, not even for the pbt which is nice but not a gamebreaker when melee players are swinging fast. The later supposing a combination with a haste debuff to be really efficient, which is found in the light spec from the enchanter, a spec which has always been weak, in a class that's only a shadow of its pre-toa glory.
Hence a group with a warden is weak in term of damage, but a warden-less group is weaker because its makes all frontline classes(except heroes) too vulnerable to mage-heavy setups which happen to be a majority of the opposition.
3. Gameplay has become more and more fast-paced since ressource management is no longer an issue: it's about heavy damage in a matter of seconds, or heavy healing, or heavy neutralization(interruption) capabilities. Warden in an 8-man group has neither, whichever way you spec your toon, whichever your rank, unless maybe you go extreme with 42 in regen and healing RAs, crippling most of your supposed hybrid potential. And even then you're far from what a 26reg-specced bard or a friar might provide.
4. When you have 2 druids, 1 bard and optionally a menty while opposing groups field 2 clerics/1friar+1cleric or 2xhealers(shaman having too little healing potential, valks rarely heal, they melee) a warden is one healer too many. You just don't need it for the heals, it's a fact. So what are you going to do? Pre-emptive heals, thus making your group lose the initiative, implying a tremendous disadvantage from the get-go?
5. Melee isn't compatible with casting heals. Heretics in group do not spec for melee. Valks have instant heals, friars have passive healing buffs and are superior at casting heals anyway, shamans and bards are casters, same for menty, every pet class with a baseline pet heal is a caster. Healing doesn't neutralize their other potential, on the contrary it complements it. Not for wardens.
6. Out of every single BG-capable class in this game, the warden is the only one to not get either 2H or DW. Being a good BG'ing character implies a decent dps potential. Every BG is capable of peeling in the age of side+rear snares for everyone without giving up anything (except a warden because of the 1.8x points). In fact a BG-less character such as the Valk can be pretty efficient as a defending character, moreso than a warden(partly because their mages don't get to deal with zerks/savages i'll grant you that).
You'd be right in a pre-2007 logic, when the warden could help win a fight in the long run, draining mana/end from hybrids while BG'ing. Ressource management mattered then. And you won't be right again as long as the warden doesn't become either potent in terms of damage OR healing(i'm not asking for both, only mid classes get that).
I love my warden, and i've been very efficient with this character, but this character is frustrating because in a group context, everything it does, it does badly. Except tanking which isn't required outside of solo/small-man.
Is your vision of an hybrid that of a bad caster+bad melee?
