Date Posted:1/1/00 12:01amSubject:
Game is an unplayable mess for soloers....Mythic, please fix this disgrace...
Salarius1 posted: I really don't see the issue here.
Since release I've played solo, 8man, zerg, small man, and hell, pve for a bit. This game is, in fact, an MMMPORG. This game was designed for large "armies" (zergs) to fight each other, siege, relic take, etc. The problem is that NF + useless incentives (20% was a lot at release, but with skill/templates, it's overcome) + clustering/realm swapping has basically nuetralized the basic concept of the game.
Stealthers in this thread saying they have no use. Well, hello to the stupid realm map. At release I was exclusively a soloer on my inf, but on relic raids, etc etc, I would actually scout and report to the chat group. A lot of us stealthers did, even the absolute "leetists". Stealthers would climb into keeps...count numbers...take out casters on walls, or if in defense, camp the climb points and fight enemy stealthers. A lot of stealther anguish isn't over mechanics..it's over the overall implementation of NF and what that did for rvr itself.
Folks are throwing out why other folks have cancelled and left the game. Well, the truth is, people leave all the time for different reasons. A lot of people left before assassins got dodge, etc, nerfed way back in the day. I personally know a lot that left when zerkers/shadowzerks were over the top, and on and on. There was a mass exodus over competent 8mans crushing zergs, too. And yes, soloers on a very high pop server tend to quit.
Mythic cannot cater to every playstyle. By trying to do so, they will alienate EVERYONE. (Although, some could argue they already have).
There is no way a company, even a bad one, is going to cater to soloers in an MMPORG. If they do so, they just alienate their much bigger subscriber base: The casual zergers that everyone and their mama complains about on these boards....
Flame on...
The problem with that is that when you do what they intended, it lags the server very badly and becomes unplayable because it starts crashing the client with that number of people in one area. Also in terms of the amount of realm points you get, there seems to be much more incentive to fight by yourself then with a group or zerg since you get more per kill alone.
Date Posted:1/1/00 12:01amSubject:
Game is an unplayable mess for soloers....Mythic, please fix this disgrace...
Salarius1 posted: This game is, in fact, an MMMPORG. This game was designed for large "armies" (zergs) to fight each other, siege, relic take, etc.
That's fine for this game to be designed for that... but just keep in mind not all MMOs are designed for that, so the first sentence is really irrelevant.
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Date Posted:1/1/00 12:02amSubject:
Game is an unplayable mess for soloers....Mythic, please fix this disgrace...
Divination posted: I haven't been in a stealth zerg in years. I have grouped maybe 3 times in the past year and prefer to solo.
Although the game makes it almost impossible to solo, that is what I choose to do for the time being.
And no, I will not GTFO until I think it's time to close it down.
What I want is for Mythic to change the rules a bit so that failure is not rewarded as it is now by ganking others with massive numbers and still getting huge RPs for it when you should be getting a fraction of RPs as I listed above in a nice, neat formula.
If you want to gank, your RPs should suffer also. You should not be rewarded for ganking solos and duos as you are now. That has nothing to do with RvR. RvR is supposed to involve large groups of people fighting each other, not FGs SLing the area to kill solo and duo stealthers because Mythic Math gives them good RPs for this behavior.
You got to RR11 as a stealthzerger, who cares if you havent grouped for years after that?
Lets add a new rule then, as soon you attack a caster without LT and MoC RA as a stealther you lose one full RR. Then i am with you, untill then, gtfo.
Date Posted:1/1/00 12:02amSubject:
Game is an unplayable mess for soloers....Mythic, please fix this disgrace...
People will ALWAYS complain.
If we can keep it simple,facts are facts. More people played and enjoyed the game right before the release of toa on both rvr and pvp servers.
Realm pride cannot be brought back on ywain and it shouldn't,too many peeps put a lot of work on all 3 servers.
A new server,pre toa is what many many people want,realm pride can return,not so many I WIN buttons,easyier templates,etc etc...
The vn boards always had peeps complaining,but there was also ALOT of planned events,people looking for help and even the devs communicated with us.
Simplest of simple things would be allow us to char copy to mordred,wouldn't hurt ywains population and it would give us something new to do. Opens a huge huge door of possiblities and fun.
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Where are the Mordred Changes??
Date Posted:1/1/00 12:02amSubject:
Game is an unplayable mess for soloers....Mythic, please fix this disgrace...
kxsleeper posted: People will ALWAYS complain.
If we can keep it simple,facts are facts. More people played and enjoyed the game right before the release of toa on both rvr and pvp servers.
Realm pride cannot be brought back on ywain and it shouldn't,too many peeps put a lot of work on all 3 servers.
A new server,pre toa is what many many people want,realm pride can return,not so many I WIN buttons,easyier templates,etc etc...
The vn boards always had peeps complaining,but there was also ALOT of planned events,people looking for help and even the devs communicated with us.
Simplest of simple things would be allow us to char copy to mordred,wouldn't hurt ywains population and it would give us something new to do. Opens a huge huge door of possiblities and fun.
Here is the deal with realm pride. It existed because the player base was interested in it being there and there were very few younger children playing at the time. No game cards existed when DAoC first came out, it was all done from credit cards which vastly limited the number of younger immature players.
Also the time played a big factor (leveling, neck check...) because it weeded out the impatient from getting high enough level to RvR (it was cool to be able to RvR before 50 in the frontiers... that was long ago). In general people were mature and helpful and weren't really interested in being the most uber and best which made it much more fun and for a much better atmosphere when people used to actually stop doing other activities in their normal lives to come get on and defend the relic. As the mmorpg genre has gone along, it has moved into grabbing a younger player base and you see the result of that from the atmosphere it creates in the current mmorpg games coming out. It almost doesn't matter what game it is, it is inevitable that the atmosphere is going to end up that way now it is really irreversible. The game has drastically changed and made everything easier and faster, we see the result of catering to the immaturity.
Date Posted:1/1/00 12:02amSubject:
Game is an unplayable mess for soloers....Mythic, please fix this disgrace...
Frendab posted: Here is the deal with realm pride. It existed because the player base was interested in it being there and there were very few younger children playing at the time. No game cards existed when DAoC first came out, it was all done from credit cards which vastly limited the number of younger immature players.
Also the time played a big factor (leveling, neck check...) because it weeded out the impatient from getting high enough level to RvR (it was cool to be able to RvR before 50 in the frontiers... that was long ago). In general people were mature and helpful and weren't really interested in being the most uber and best which made it much more fun and for a much better atmosphere when people used to actually stop doing other activities in their normal lives to come get on and defend the relic. As the mmorpg genre has gone along, it has moved into grabbing a younger player base and you see the result of that from the atmosphere it creates in the current mmorpg games coming out. It almost doesn't matter what game it is, it is inevitable that the atmosphere is going to end up that way now it is really irreversible. The game has drastically changed and made everything easier and faster, we see the result of catering to the immaturity.
What you say sounds good on the surface but there are problems with your logic.
Yes back in the day players used credit cards to pay for the game and today they can use game cards, but who do you think uses their credit cards to pay for most of the game cards that are used for DAoC? Children?
Today it is easier to identify an adolescent by listening to their voice on vent so many think there are more children in the game today. Back before vent was popular you could not always tell from the text, but there were many children in the game at the beginning. I often ran into children back in the day.
My friend that got me into DAoC had 5 accounts. One for himself and one for each of his kids. One child was 6, one was 8, one was 11 and the oldest was 13. Believe it or not the 6 year old was the best in RvR. The 6 year old was totally devastating and was always wanted in a group. The others were good too but the 6 year old was brilliant at the game.
Also, many who spent their time being totally rude on Mordred, where Mythic allowed such behavior (lets face it, rudeness was a big part of Mordred), are now playing on Ywain (because Mordred is dead) and are only slightly kept in check by the CSRs. So it can seem like the overall number of immature players has risen when it may not have.
If anything, over the last 10 years the DAoC player base has grown older. The players that started playing back when they were 15 years old are now 25. Those who started playing when they were 10 are now 20.
About Realm Pride.
Realm pride existed because it is a natural occurrence in a game like DAoC. When players start a character the natural thing is to assist realm mates. Even immature brats had realm pride back at the beginning.
The natural thing is not:
To become a traitor.
To sit back and do nothing while watching the enemy kill a realm mate who may have joined in to assist and help.
To end IRL friendships because a IRL friend added on and "took†some RPs (yes there was a thread about this very thing where a person posted their anger about a IRL friend that was no longer a friend because they added on to a fight and took some RPs).
Etc. . ..
Realm Pride is a natural occurrence and even the immature showed realm pride back in the day. Realm Pride is not something that only mature players have.
The developers had to incentivize against realm pride to get rid of it. Once players were incentivzed to move away from realm pride, even many mature players moved toward selfish immature behavior. I know many children, who see the world in the somewhat immature black and white viewpoint, that are fed up with the selfish stupidity of adults who have no realm pride and who tell the immature kids to “grow up†to the real world.
To think that the problem of a vanishing realm pride may be the cause of immaturity, that is totally false unless you mean the immaturity of Mythic who created the incentives that moved players away from realm pride.
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Date Posted:1/1/00 12:02amSubject:
Game is an unplayable mess for soloers....Mythic, please fix this disgrace...
Frendab posted: Here is the deal with realm pride. It existed because the player base was interested in it being there and there were very few younger children playing at the time. No game cards existed when DAoC first came out, it was all done from credit cards which vastly limited the number of younger immature players.
Also the time played a big factor (leveling, neck check...) because it weeded out the impatient from getting high enough level to RvR (it was cool to be able to RvR before 50 in the frontiers... that was long ago). In general people were mature and helpful and weren't really interested in being the most uber and best which made it much more fun and for a much better atmosphere when people used to actually stop doing other activities in their normal lives to come get on and defend the relic. As the mmorpg genre has gone along, it has moved into grabbing a younger player base and you see the result of that from the atmosphere it creates in the current mmorpg games coming out. It almost doesn't matter what game it is, it is inevitable that the atmosphere is going to end up that way now it is really irreversible. The game has drastically changed and made everything easier and faster, we see the result of catering to the immaturity.
Semi4 posted: What you say sounds good on the surface but there are problems with your logic.
Yes back in the day players used credit cards to pay for the game and today they can use game cards, but who do you think uses their credit cards to pay for most of the game cards that are used for DAoC? Children?
You are forgetting a second shift. Most parents back then did not want to use their credit cards over the internet at all, let alone to pay for a game that required payment each month for their children. There has been a general shift in that area as it has become more normal to shop online and many more MMORPGs have come out, so it would appear your logic is faulty, not mine.
Semi4 posted: Today it is easier to identify an adolescent by listening to their voice on vent so many think there are more children in the game today. Back before vent was popular you could not always tell from the text, but there were many children in the game at the beginning. I often ran into children back in the day.
This really isn't going to be provable one way or another but I saw a huge change from playing WoW when I stopped playing DAoC a while ago. The younger crowd is very noticeable there and it is quite apparent how many of them played back in the day based on their actions and I talked with plenty of people on vent back in the beginning and I never heard a single child playing that wasn't playing with an adult there to supervise them most of the time, although it was rare for a child to even be playing.
Semi4 posted: My friend that got me into DAoC had 5 accounts. One for himself and one for each of his kids. One child was 6, one was 8, one was 11 and the oldest was 13. Believe it or not the 6 year old was the best in RvR. The 6 year old was totally devastating and was always wanted in a group. The others were good too but the 6 year old was brilliant at the game.
I already answered this above, he also played which made it very different because he was supervising them and if they were rude or said things they shouldn't he would most likely hear about it even if he wasn't always there.
Semi4 posted: Also, many who spent their time being totally rude on Mordred, where Mythic allowed such behavior (lets face it, rudeness was a big part of Mordred), are now playing on Ywain (because Mordred is dead) and are only slightly kept in check by the CSRs. So it can seem like the overall number of immature players has risen when it may not have.
If anything, over the last 10 years the DAoC player base has grown older. The players that started playing back when they were 15 years old are now 25. Those who started playing when they were 10 are now 20.
I'm not really sure this proves anything other then what I already said. There were fewer immature people on the realms back then overall, being constantly rude would definitely make you immature, so that would only strengthen my argument since I was never on Mordred, I wasn't counting them as a source. The player base has also, gone to other games where they have been heavily influenced by the cultures there, and then come back which I already explained were pretty crappy atmospheres overall.
Semi4 posted: About Realm Pride.
Realm pride existed because it is a natural occurrence in a game like DAoC. When players start a character the natural thing is to assist realm mates. Even immature brats had realm pride back at the beginning.
The natural thing is not:
To become a traitor.
To sit back and do nothing while watching the enemy kill a realm mate who may have joined in to assist and help.
To end IRL friendships because a IRL friend added on and "took†some RPs (yes there was a thread about this very thing where a person posted their anger about a IRL friend that was no longer a friend because they added on to a fight and took some RPs).
Etc. . ..
Realm Pride is a natural occurrence and even the immature showed realm pride back in the day. Realm Pride is not something that only mature players have.
This is just all kinds of wrong. Realm pride is not a natural occurrence to the extent it was on DAoC. It does not happen in any other game like it did here anymore because the player base has changed on average to be much younger than it was then. It happened because in general the community was more mature and older.
Semi4 posted: The developers had to incentivize against realm pride to get rid of it. Once players were incentivzed to move away from realm pride, even many mature players moved toward selfish immature behavior. I know many children, who see the world in the somewhat immature black and white viewpoint, that are fed up with the selfish stupidity of adults who have no realm pride and who tell the immature kids to “grow up†to the real world.
To think that the problem of a vanishing realm pride may be the cause of immaturity, that is totally false unless you mean the immaturity of Mythic who created the incentives that moved players away from realm pride.
What incentives to move away from realm pride? If it was so natural as you said it should still be happening up until they made it so you could be on all three realms on ywain, which it wasn't. The immature player base caused the shift just as the mature player base made it enjoyable from the beginning.
Date Posted:1/1/00 12:02amSubject:
Game is an unplayable mess for soloers....Mythic, please fix this disgrace...
Frendab posted: What incentives to move away from realm pride? If it was so natural as you said it should still be happening up until they made it so you could be on all three realms on ywain, which it wasn't. The immature player base caused the shift just as the mature player base made it enjoyable from the beginning.
you get more RPs for solo kills then group kills...
back when the game started, RPs were a worthless status symbol with no rewards attached... so the realm worked together...
then Mythic added Realm abilities... wich made RPs more then just hey look how much i helped my realm...
then people sought ways to optimize there RP gains to get more abilities faster... wich ended up being more RPs for solo/small man teams so the player base got selfish and didnt care about the realm anymore, they just wanted the great and mighty ARRPEES!
plus, fluff titles for solo kills, bounty points being usable for selfish reasons instead of just capturing keeps for the realm.... all incentives to be selfish instead of working for the betterment of the realm.
Date Posted:1/1/00 12:02amSubject:
Game is an unplayable mess for soloers....Mythic, please fix this disgrace...
More immature players now? Not really, it's just easier for them to put the spotlight on themselves.
Back in the day everything was player driven, especially the communication methods. If you wanted to be involved in RvR, you generally joined the CG (bgs came later), which had designated leaders that would boot someone who wasn't being appropriate. You also had to send a tell asking for an invite to the CG.
With /region, anyone can be heard all the time. If it existed in the game back in 2001, it would have been as annoying as it is now.
VN has always been drivel.
And I agree with you, Jocke. Shadora did nothing but sit on bridges with tons of other Alb stealths back on the RP cluster, who knows if he/she was grouped or not, but certainly was never alone. Maybe soloing was easier back then because more people actually tried to go to Occ bridge back then to get rolled by the stealth groups.
