Zothane posted damage in the Ywain thread showing the same damage without relics. You need to run high MoM, AA, and 10 pierce/dmg. To be asking to do caster damage without 10 pierce and dmg is laughable.

Hybrid damage is acceptable if you invest the points in damage passives as well as pierce and spell dmg. But to be asking to do more damage without first investing in the damage passives and TOA's is ridiculous.

The problem is the thane can't do everything exceptional. But you can do great magic damage with acceptable melee and the ability to BG/peel/clear pets. If you try to be good at melee and magic you will fall short due to being on hybrid damage tables. And if they boosted magic damage so you could do acceptable damage without all those TOA's or points in dmg passives imagine thanes that did invest those points in dmg passives and TOA's. The caster thane would then be pretty OP'd.

Thanes are fine as they are. A pierce buff in storm calling would go a long way for templating and allowing them to have some better melee TOA's with capped magic TOA's. Unfortunately items aren't usually optimized for hybrid classes. Hybrid classes get the shaft for itemization.

 

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I was trying to show that even with EVERYTHING capped, the damage is still mediocre.

Mediocre spell damage, pitiful melee, sub par defense. Honestly if I hadn't already invested the time to build, gear, and rank up this toon I would just move on.

All my casters have some way to survive and deal some DPS.
My tanks can take a beating and deal some wicked melee damage. Warrior is almost dumb.
My stealth are just lol at the moment.
Don't get me started on my tic. What a class. It has everything!
Then I play my thane,
And well, the thane just doesn't shine in any regard.

For class balance:
I think the piercing buff is glorious. A bolt would really be a trick. The shitty RR5 on a 5 min timer. And some sort of damage reduction/damage return for BG'ing would be clutch.

For groupability:
Either endo redux chant moved to thane or a mid group cast defensive proc of some type. Hot, heal, reactive dd, lifetap, something.

About all the above things could actually come from gear but it's not like thanes have an easy time templating.

 

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do people not notice that all of that damage in the above SS's is against HORRIBLE resists? Also, we should judge a class based on RR10+ stats all put into damage passives? AND when he's got an acuity buff from keep chest that is difficult to obtain AFAIK.

 

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The fact that someone can do good damage on a thane w/o relics or acuity pots, regardless of rank, makes me believe most of you wanting thane love have no idea how to play your own class.

Even at RR7 you can run similar dmg passives to Zothane at RR12. Zothane just gets the chance to get other useful abilities like purge, det, ST, etc. People that are RR7ish should have no problem doing good magic dmg and have acceptable melee/defense on a thane.

 

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What is good magic damage and acceptable melee/defense to you?

You are going to judge a class based on their performance regardless of rank? (rr12 at that).

rr7 have similar damage passives of a rr12? sure, if you don't have ANY timered abilities. This also means you'll be dead before you can do any damage.

Devaster: you are seriously going to rate he class based on a RR12 Thane, with circumstantial evidence of their magic damage? I hope you are just a big troll; if not, you are just ...

 

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Good magic damage would be ~300 without a lot of passives. And greater than 400 with max passives. Which Zothane has shown is possible w/o relics or keep potions. Thanes get an energy debuff, use it. You should be expecting this damage against people with 36% max energy resist (with CL). A lot of people gimp energy, however. So you should see nice damage regardless on a thane.

This is a hybrid, not a cloth caster. You get chain armor, shield, and parry for defense. While the DW penetration might suck with slam nerf, it isn't a big deal outside of solo. Thanes can still peel effectively and BG. They can DPS and jump on tank train if needed. But a good thane is never going to have great melee. Most of the thane's points will be spent in spell dmg passives.

And with the range on thane spells you could run less than 10% range and still have more range than most casters. With the exception of bolts, NS, and amnesia.

 

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The class imo has laughable survivability when compared against most other hybrids,crap for utility,its a mediocre class at best.


All the time and effort spent taking a thane full caster would be better spent on a real caster,you ll end up with more dps,almost and in some cases better survivability and a hell of alot more utility, not to mention a hell of an easier time making a template.


Maybe they should change Mjolnir to give 10% to magic instead of melee,games turned into a joke.

 

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The first thing you should be getting are damage passives on a caster thane. MAYBE get purge 1 in case you get rooted. But seriously you need damage passives first thing.

At 7L0 you could have MoM 9, WP 7, LW 1 and Purge 1.

 

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If going mom9, it would be rather silly not to be smart about template and spec(say 50sc,50axe,23shield,17parry), since the dd proc on Tyr's Fury would allow the Thane to be a melee-dps with rather high and sustainable dps - AND a "caster Thane".

Granted, the Thane would be quite easy to cc, especially at low/medium RR, then again, unlike a rooted or snared Zerk or Savage that would be rendered close to useless(the short time they're affected), while the Thane still got lots of options to interrupt or to throw out dps.


But yeah, there's several things about the Thane that needs to be tweaked. Hammerline for example, inability to spam ML styles for a while, most other hybrid's with access to BattleMaster got some very good way of regaining/keeping endurance(only the VW that is just as bad at that, as the Thane).

ALL hybrids have means(class abilities) of regaining HP in one way or another - except the Thane(and the Champion, although the Champion is still ahead of the Thane, able to get a hauberk with HoT, and still maintain a overall good template(IF there were a Mid chain Seer HoT proccing Hauberk, a Thane wouldn't be able to use it in a good fashion, because of the hardship to template a Thane(remove the Slayer/TG/ML10/Dragondrop Hauberk from the Thane, and the template just couldn't "handle it".


There's of course other issues as well - so yes I agree, the Thane need some loving.

(I've laid down some substanial text/info/thoughts/suggestions/questions at the internal Mythic boards about the Thane, so it's there for Mythic to read)

 

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I forget who suggested a pierce buff in SC, but that is the most balanced solution imo. It would allow Thanes to skip templating pierce items (typically have bad melee TOA's) and have the chance to template more melee TOA's or strength/quick in their templates. Maintaining max spell effectiveness of a casting thane and increasing melee capabilities.

I also think a HoT chest would be nice, but you also have warriors and skalds asking for that. Could just run the ML10 studded chest.

I disagree with giving thanes an endo reduction buff, unless it were removed from skalds. Most classes in Mid and Hib suffer with endo and trying to spam battlemaster styles. The exceptions being warden and friar, and those classes are not hybrids. And I guess you could run a friar bot, but not everyone does that.

 

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