Well, statistically speaking that's not true but that's enough to establish it for me. I didn't realize BM DPS was that low. I figured with decent passive RAs and banespike they'd be able to drop targets.

 

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bms damage is fine, just compared to the spike dps that a zerker and savage can put out, or the claw spam of a vamp, i always felt my merc and BM did far less damage. but this has been the case since vamps came out and the style changes patch.


then with the slam nerf i felt all the more useless with these two classes and felt more of a back field interrupter than a DPS tank.

 

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there is no such thing like clawspam of a vamp. in a world with decent players, vamps are standing around being rootet most of the time.

 

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Well, BM's regular DPS isn't that low. The problem in these logs mainly comes from instant debuffs. Against bad/average players, BMs won't have to deal with these debuffs, because a lot of players simply forget them. But actually, they are very powerful. Against a standard PBT group, using the debuffs will halve a dual wielder's damage (it's much worse for two handers), and that's where most of our problems are from.


Here's a sample of testing done with no debuffs :


[10:11:35] You prepare to perform a Thunderstorm!

[10:11:36] Your strike was absorbed by a magical barrier!

[10:11:36] You miss!

[10:11:36] You fumble the attack and take time to recover!

[10:11:36] You prepare to perform a Thunderstorm!

[10:11:38] You perform your Thunderstorm perfectly. (+113)

[10:11:38] You attack Theurgistvictim with your sword and hit for 215 (-96) damage!

[10:11:38] You hit Theurgistvictim for 9 extra damage!

[10:11:38] You attack Theurgistvictim with your sword and hit for 149 (-67) damage!

[10:11:38] You hit Theurgistvictim for 11 extra damage!

[10:11:39] You prepare to perform a Thunderstorm!

[10:11:40] Your strike was absorbed by a magical barrier!

[10:11:40] You miss!

[10:11:40] You attack Theurgistvictim with your sword and hit for 130 (-59) damage!

[10:11:40] You hit Theurgistvictim for 11 extra damage!

[10:11:41] You prepare to perform a Thunderstorm!

[10:11:42] You perform your Thunderstorm perfectly. (+117)

[10:11:42] You attack Theurgistvictim with your sword and hit for 222 (-100) damage!

[10:11:42] You critical hit for an additional 59 damage!

[10:11:42] You hit Theurgistvictim for 11 extra damage!

[10:11:42] You attack Theurgistvictim with your sword and hit for 155 (-70) damage!

[10:11:42] You hit Theurgistvictim for 7 extra damage!

[10:11:43] You prepare to perform a Thunderstorm!

[10:11:44] Theurgistvictim begins moving more quickly.

[10:11:44] You perform your Thunderstorm perfectly. (+140)

[10:11:44] You attack Theurgistvictim with your sword and hit for 265 (-119) damage!

[10:11:44] You hit Theurgistvictim for 10 extra damage!

[10:11:44] You attack Theurgistvictim with your sword and hit for 132 (-59) damage!

[10:11:44] You hit Theurgistvictim for 8 extra damage!

[10:11:44] Theurgistvictim begins moving more slowly!

[10:11:45] You prepare to perform a Thunderstorm!

[10:11:46] You perform your Thunderstorm perfectly. (+131)

[10:11:46] You attack Theurgistvictim with your sword and hit for 248 (-111) damage!

[10:11:46] You hit Theurgistvictim for 9 extra damage!

[10:11:47] You prepare to perform a Thunderstorm!

[10:11:48] Your strike was absorbed by a magical barrier!

[10:11:48] You fumble the attack and take time to recover!

[10:11:48] You attack Theurgistvictim with your sword and hit for 148 (-66) damage!

[10:11:48] You hit Theurgistvictim for 10 extra damage!

[10:11:48] You prepare to perform a Thunderstorm!

[10:11:50] You perform your Thunderstorm perfectly. (+116)

[10:11:50] You attack Theurgistvictim with your sword and hit for 221 (-99) damage!

[10:11:50] You hit Theurgistvictim for 10 extra damage!

[10:11:50] You miss!

[10:11:51] You prepare to perform a Thunderstorm!

[10:11:52] You perform your Thunderstorm perfectly. (+104)

[10:11:52] You attack Theurgistvictim with your sword and hit for 197 (-88) damage!

[10:11:52] You hit Theurgistvictim for 9 extra damage!

[10:11:52] You attack Theurgistvictim with your sword and hit for 133 (-60) damage!

[10:11:52] You hit Theurgistvictim for 10 extra damage!

[10:11:52] Theurgistvictim begins moving more slowly!

[10:11:53] You prepare to perform a Thunderstorm!

[10:11:54] Your strike was absorbed by a magical barrier!

[10:11:54] You miss!

[10:11:54] You attack Theurgistvictim with your sword and hit for 155 (-70) damage!

[10:11:54] You hit Theurgistvictim for 10 extra damage!

[10:11:55] You prepare to perform a Thunderstorm!

[10:11:55] You perform your Thunderstorm perfectly. (+117)

[10:11:55] You attack Theurgistvictim with your sword and hit for 222 (-100) damage!

[10:11:55] You hit Theurgistvictim for 11 extra damage!

[10:11:55] You attack Theurgistvictim with your sword and hit for 167 (-75) damage!

[10:11:55] You hit Theurgistvictim for 8 extra damage!

[10:11:56] You prepare to perform a Thunderstorm!

[10:11:57] You perform your Thunderstorm perfectly. (+133)

[10:11:57] You attack Theurgistvictim with your sword and hit for 253 (-114) damage!

[10:11:57] You hit Theurgistvictim for 7 extra damage!

[10:11:57] You attack Theurgistvictim with your sword and hit for 148 (-66) damage!

[10:11:57] You hit Theurgistvictim for 7 extra damage!

[10:11:58] You prepare to perform a Thunderstorm!

[10:11:59] Your strike was absorbed by a magical barrier!

[10:11:59] You miss!

[10:11:59] You attack Theurgistvictim with your sword and hit for 167 (-75) damage!

[10:11:59] You hit Theurgistvictim for 9 extra damage!

[10:11:59] Theurgistvictim looks a little crazy!

[10:11:59] You hit Theurgistvictim for 49 damage!

[10:12:00] You prepare to perform a Thunderstorm!

[10:12:01] You perform your Thunderstorm perfectly. (+105)

[10:12:01] You attack Theurgistvictim with your sword and hit for 200 (-90) damage!

[10:12:01] You hit Theurgistvictim for 7 extra damage!

[10:12:01] You attack Theurgistvictim with your sword and hit for 159 (-71) damage!

[10:12:01] You hit Theurgistvictim for 8 extra damage!


The damage per hit doesn't look much better, but if you look at the log times, the BM hits almost twice as much, which result in a much less significant PBT impact. In that situation, the damage is still pretty meh (aka you still need 12-15 seconds to kill a mage that does not circle-runs/zo²), but it's not a nightmare like it is against a clever group.


Just for reminder, instant debuffs last 30 seconds to 80 seconds after resists and have a cooldown of 5 seconds.

What he eat a ban for?

 

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Regarding the number of swings, the "standard" logs had the BM doing ~275 rounds over 9mn each, which is a little better than 2s/round. Haste debuff made the BM attack ~208 times(~2.6s/swing). D/Q+haste debuff meant ~170 rounds logs(~3,2s/swing). Very, very nasty on a 6s pbt.

The standard situation with CL DA, where the physical part is the highest, has the physical damage dealt at an 86% proportion(7% going to CL DA, and 7% to ML10 procs). If you want to factor in mop9, it would increase that part by 11.3%. Better styles than thunderstorm would probably range in around 5~7% more physical damage.
With the following logs the physical part proportion went down since DAs have a constant DPS adapted to swing speed, and proc rate is also adapted.

What the logs can't show though, cause i messed up with the logs on the theurgist side, is the defensive proc rate, not even mentioning the group heal procs, all of them probably in adequation with the swing speed as is the case on the attacker's side.

Not every mage in every group thinks of all the debuffs, but on agramon any decent group will make sure a tank duo keeps all his red debuffs from 5s after inc to the end, + the shears... Pretty frustrating and demoralizing.

Fortunately Mythic acknowledges the situation and... oh, they nerfed banelord in 1.111b? Again?!

BTW, speaking of TW again, it's nice to see those group stacking 2x10.0DPS DA. Yesterday my group ran into an alb group with a red DA paladin in it, debuffed a HO merc with my chanter(32% haste debuff+baseline str debuff), his logs looked liked that:

180~200ish MH
+30 DA
+35 DA
100~120 OH
+35 DA
+30 DA

That merc was swinging for a low 300, and hitting me for 130 extra damage. This is rare on alb groups(paladins...), but frequent with mid groups, as long as the skalds are smart enough to aim for the red DA/celerity(if not equal, the lower DA is halved).

Now THAT is what i'd call triple wielding.

i am qqing about dmg adds for years, it really sucks. :/ ench dmg add should be baseline or alb dmg add should be moved in a specline.

 

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people being mad about me being right

 

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It's true.

 

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