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Author Topic: How to fix the auction house [Locked]
DarkPCK  2 stars
Title: Got to go house is on fire.
Posts: 457
Registered: 2003-12-14 12:38:01
Semi4 posted:

To relate this to a similar challenge that you may be more familiar with, ‘the 4GB ram limit in a 32 bit OS’.

Players can install far more than 4GBs of ram in today’s modern computer but if the user has installed a 32 bit OS the computer can’t use the additional ram past about 4GBs. It is a limitation of the word length of the 32 bit OS. To make use of more than 4GBs of ram an entirely new OS (a 64 bit OS) needs to be installed.


Those are Microsoft lies. Obviously, you make bytes useless and scale everything down. Then the new megabyte becomes a gigabyte, and you can have 4000 GBs.

 

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UnscrupulousDulu  1 star
Posts: 152
Registered:
DarkPCK posted:

Semi4 posted:

To relate this to a similar challenge that you may be more familiar with, ‘the 4GB ram limit in a 32 bit OS’.

Players can install far more than 4GBs of ram in today’s modern computer but if the user has installed a 32 bit OS the computer can’t use the additional ram past about 4GBs. It is a limitation of the word length of the 32 bit OS. To make use of more than 4GBs of ram an entirely new OS (a 64 bit OS) needs to be installed.


Those are Microsoft lies. Obviously, you make bytes useless and scale everything down. Then the new megabyte becomes a gigabyte, and you can have 4000 GBs.



There is a difference between video game currency, which as another poster has shown can be manipulated, and real-life technical limitations.

But, of course, what would be expected from a grown man who finds Family Guy funny?
ArkadyTepes  3 stars
Posts: 510
Registered: 2004-1-10 11:08:57
UnscrupulousDulu posted:

You all seem to be buying Mythic's lies hook line and sinker.

We can have 999 gold, yet can't have 999 plat? Think about it.

If that were really the case, all you would have to do is shift the currency.

Plat -> Gold -> Silver, and Copper is deleted. Then, the "new plat" would become worth 999 current plat.



all monsters that drop coin would have to be adjusted to lower values, all quests would have to be adjusted, all merchant pricing... on and on

its not a simple point of shifting 1 decimal, its shifting hundreds of thousands of decimals...

 

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UnscrupulousDulu  1 star
Posts: 152
Registered:
ArkadyTepes posted:

UnscrupulousDulu posted:

You all seem to be buying Mythic's lies hook line and sinker.

We can have 999 gold, yet can't have 999 plat? Think about it.

If that were really the case, all you would have to do is shift the currency.

Plat -> Gold -> Silver, and Copper is deleted. Then, the "new plat" would become worth 999 current plat.



all monsters that drop coin would have to be adjusted to lower values, all quests would have to be adjusted, all merchant pricing... on and on

its not a simple point of shifting 1 decimal, its shifting hundreds of thousands of decimals...



Ok, you just listed three things.

Monster drops. Shift one decimal. Quest rewards. Shift one decimal. Merchant Pricing.. What do people actually buy other than trade supply stuff and dyes? Have one developer spend a few hours of his night adjusting prices. Shit, I'd do it for free as a service to DAoC.
orrime  1 star
Title: Camelot Vault Staff
Hib Melee Mentor

Posts: 85
Registered: 2010-4-15 03:34:07
UnscrupulousDulu posted:

Its an auction house. And a rather poor one. The reason for moving the auction house to the capital cities, is so people wont have to move between the ywain servers, they can just put their goods up for sale and buy goods on the shared server, and everyone is happy.



Do you understand the principle of auctions ? There is no auction on DAoC housing, just direct sales. If someone decides to buy something, there is no way for you to overbid. Hence *not* an auction.


Also saving 5 mins once every while when you retemp is far from being a game breaker, there are much worse problems to solve.


ps : anyone that would trust bioware enough for a large database operation considering their history of patching needs either database maintenance lessons or to be shot.
Semi4  3 stars
Posts: 566
Registered: 2003-8-8 13:58:29
UnscrupulousDulu posted:

There is a difference between video game currency, which as another poster has shown can be manipulated, and real-life technical limitations.

That makes a great sound bite but it is not reality. A game currency can only be manipulated “as another poster has shown” if the original game code allows for that kind of manipulation. If the game database had been designed to be a bit more robust, then your suggestion would probably be very easy to implement. If the original game code was stupidly designed, then to create some manipulations could require extensive modification of the game code (and that is the challenge that we have with the DAoC plat cap and game code).


I am sorry that you do not have the background to be able to fully understand the limitations and challenges. In many circumstances a video game currency can be manipulated. In some ways DAoCs game currency can be manipulated, but not in any way (not without extensive code changes). Your suggestions can be implemented but it is more difficult than you seem to think.


In the case of DAoC and Mythic, Mythic designed the database so that attached to each item, as part of the database, is a single FIXED 32 bit long word that is assigned as the holding place for price (in copper) and the 32 bit word creates the limit for the cap. It is a fixed limit designed in the database. This fixed 32 bit word in the database is part of the basic code of the underlying design of the database. All databases in the game and all game code is designed around the 32-bit word length being the fixed and unchanging monetary number in the game of DAoC.


Back to my previous example of the 4GB cap for ram when using a 32 bit OS. Modern computers are not limited by a physical cap that prevents the use of greater than 4GBs of ram. That limit in a modern computer is totally software coded. Just as the 32 bit OS has a fixed coded limit that caps 4GBs as the limit in a modern computer that is using a 32 bit OS, the 32-bit word length is a software coded limit in the design of the DAoC database. Also the DAoC code that deals with, and manipulates, money is also designed around manipulation of that specific 32-bit word that defines copper in the game.


It is sad that Mythic could have created a database where the monetary value was not fixed and/or limited by the 32-bit word. They also could have created more robust game code so that the code could deal with monetary values that were not limited by a 32-bit word. But they did not. Had Mythic designed the database and the games monetary code to be more robust then the plat cap would have been arbitrary and changing the plat cap would be very easy. BUT Mythic designed the database with a single 32 bit fixed word that is used to indicate copper. That is just the way it is.


The original design of the database is structured around the 32-bit word allocated for price. Everything coded in the game where money is manipulated, transferred, added, subtracted, etc . . .it is all designed and coded around manipulating the set and specific sized 32 bit word that is standard for defining cost/price in DAoC. The only way to change from the 32 bit single length word to a double length word would be to rewrite the database and then to rewrite every bit of code that had anything to do with money. Again, the complexity is far more extensive than you seem to think.


It is the same for changing the game and eliminating copper and only having silver, gold, plat and Myth. This too is possible but the code change required is also very extensive.

 

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Semi4  3 stars
Posts: 566
Registered: 2003-8-8 13:58:29
UnscrupulousDulu posted:

Have one developer spend a few hours of his night adjusting prices. Shit, I'd do it for free as a service to DAoC.

If it would truly be easy for you to accomplish this, and as you would be willing to donate your time, then I suggest you prove it and implement the change at a shard. The shards are always looking for volunteers and once you implement the changes over there then you would have the proof to show Mythic/Bioware how it is done.


gl and please report back on your progress. If it truly is easy then I would expect to hear back about your success within a few days.


(You really did leave yourself wide open for this and I just could not resist. . . . sorry. . . lol. . . )

 

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The art of war is simple enough. Find out where your enemy is.
Get at him as soon as you can. Strike him as hard as you can,
and keep moving. - Ulysses S. Grant
Only the dead have seen the end of war - Plato
Jim_Digriz  1 star
Posts: 119
Registered: 2001-11-10 07:09:49
Semi4 posted:

It would be easer if Mythic/Bioware simply let players purchase items from a CM full of Plat and allowed the money to vanish as a penalty for some player leaving their CM full of cash. This would actually be easy to do, as it was accidentally the default when Foundations first happened.


When Foundations first happened, if I recall correctly, players found that if their CM was full of cash and players purchased from the CM, the plat/gold that was used to purchase an item simply vanished. Players yelled and to fix the problem Mythic added code to shut off the ability to purchase from a CM when the CM was full of Plat. Bioware could simply reverse things and let players purchase from a full CM.


(Edit: Thinking about it a bit more I seem to recall that what really happened was when the CM when over the limit it set the first bit in the computer word which changed the way the computer viewed the number from positive to negative.


However or whatever. . . .It is still easer to simply let players purchase from a CM that is full of plat and then let the purchase money vanish as a penalty for keeping a CM full of cash. That would be a fix that is easy to code.)



What if they used this, but rather than the money just disappearing, any money over the limit went into a cache of some sort that once full dropped 200p token into the Repo merchant's vault?

 

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DarkPCK  2 stars
Title: Got to go house is on fire.
Posts: 457
Registered: 2003-12-14 12:38:01
UnscrupulousDulu posted:

DarkPCK posted:

Semi4 posted:

To relate this to a similar challenge that you may be more familiar with, ‘the 4GB ram limit in a 32 bit OS’.

Players can install far more than 4GBs of ram in today’s modern computer but if the user has installed a 32 bit OS the computer can’t use the additional ram past about 4GBs. It is a limitation of the word length of the 32 bit OS. To make use of more than 4GBs of ram an entirely new OS (a 64 bit OS) needs to be installed.


Those are Microsoft lies. Obviously, you make bytes useless and scale everything down. Then the new megabyte becomes a gigabyte, and you can have 4000 GBs.



There is a difference between video game currency, which as another poster has shown can be manipulated, and real-life technical limitations.

But, of course, what would be expected from a grown man who finds Family Guy funny?


Not really as I've explained multiple times in this thread, and they are also analogous situations. Then again what do you expect from someone who doesn't understand simple math and its applications to basic computer science?

 

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DakRT: And 4 Scouts makes a [stealth] zerg huh?
Zyzyg: What anytime snare are you talking about?...Your anytime style should be Polar Rift. Clearly you don't play a Shadowblade.
Steot: Its fact, I just dont have proof.
ArkadyTepes  3 stars
Posts: 510
Registered: 2004-1-10 11:08:57
UnscrupulousDulu posted:

Ok, you just listed three things.

Monster drops. Shift one decimal. Quest rewards. Shift one decimal. Merchant Pricing.. What do people actually buy other than trade supply stuff and dyes? Have one developer spend a few hours of his night adjusting prices. Shit, I'd do it for free as a service to DAoC.



no, i listed CATAGORIES not things...

and inside those catagories are hundreds of thousands of variables that would all need to be adjusted individualy.

 

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