"1. Root the Savage, gain range. Your Theurgist is not better off to this melee beast (with no range) than any other cloth caster. Your point? "


Your earlier point was that elementals were the all-powerful tool for interrupting casters.


Now earth theurgists are some mystical all powerful tool for taking down Savages with root and spam pets.


Here's what would happen if you decided to do that and let's say that you are otherwise unmolested:

a. Root Savage at 1500 range. (Note now you cannot snare if root breaks since root and snare are on the same immunity timer)

b. Cast 1st earth elemental 3 sec.

c. Cast 2nd earth elemental 3 sec.

d. 1st elemental hits, breaks root

e. Savage sprints towards you, pets fall behind (sprint speed > ele speed)

f. Earth Theurgist switches to cold 180DD. Gets 2 nukes in @ ~200-250 /each.

g. Savage rips and tears. Theurgist falls dead just as 2 earth elementals catch up.


Not the way to go. If I was a wind theurg I would root, toss 1 air pet and nuke the Savage down.


Anyways, this isn't the point. The earth theurgist is supposed to be a utility caster, not a damage caster. Earth Elementals are limited utility (I used them at Gate stands in Emain to cause confusion just before a charge) and Friction is poor utility. With 1.62, PBT is of limited utility as well. Earth and Ice need something more.


"2. You actually want to bring in RAs? To strengthen your argument in favor of an Alb class in RvR against Hib and Mid? Please don't, or I might advice your Cleric to press BoF in the scenario against Midgard. Yes Mentalists have a powerful RA against pet mages, so what? It's not one of the most powerful out there, and very specific unlike some others which rule out 50% of the classes by ungodly resists to the tools of those classes (BoF and BAoD) or the Mega-HoTs FH and AM. "


The StT example is yet another point towards my point: EARTH AND ICE THEURGISTS ARE OF LIMITED UTILITY IN RvR. You went on and on about how wonderful earth pets are in RvR and how useful they were. They can't even be used against one realm without killing yourself via StT.


I'm not saying 'nerf uber StT' as it is a pretty neat RA which Hibernia can use (disclaimer: my current active character is a VW) to good effect. What I am saying is that Earth Elementals and PBT alone do not make a utility class.


If earth and ice theurgists aren't given any reason to RvR, that's ok too. Mythic should just come out and say 'no more changes for earth and ice theurgist speclines'; in which case all active theurgists will just respec Air, which is useful.


(Edit: You misattribute BAoD as an Albion 'overpowered' RA. This overpowered RA is the sole property of Uberchanters.)

I for one would love for mythic to come forward and just say that they won't be touching theurgs ever, I would respec my Earth/Ice theurg in two seconds and go wind/earth so that I could at least kill someone.

Azhrarn, lol @ your sig:

"Nerf Earth Theurgist Friction I Win Button! Think of all the Slow they can cause!"


People who think theurgists are "fine" don't play one, or play a wind theurgist. Honestly, I think the wind spec is the least "theurgist-ish" out of any we could choose. It makes you a Hib in Alb land, (stun + nuke for teh win ), rather than a support/utility class.


I play support classes, it's what I love to do. No killspam, not out in front, but sitting in back, and helping the cause of the battle. Nobody may notice, but that makes the occasional comments of those who do notice all the more important.


I have a rejuv cleric, a shield paladin, and a earth/ice theurgist. Those are hardly the classes that want the glory and spam. I just want to be able to do what I enjoy doing, as a melee, caster, and healer... and I can't because my caster SUCKS.


At least come out and say -something- to the theurgists hanging on for dear life so we can reroll, respec, or make ourselves bots.

"ou didn't mention though the single unique ability Theurgs got over any other caster or pet mage in any realm:"


...to suck harder, faster, better than anyone before us?


...to have only one halfway-viable spec line?


...the nigh-useless RA Siege Bolt?


...the ability that our class-defining description of "siege master" is pure bullsh*t?


Come on...I could keep this up for DAYS. ^_^


<edit> "does anyone know why theurgists are the only class that I am yet to see an 'official thread' for?"


Actually, I think we did have one at one point in time. However, I think it got locked...in either case, I guess no dev wants to have their name on this blatant problem in the game.

a. Root Savage at 1500 range. (Note now you cannot snare if root breaks since root and snare are on the same immunity timer)

b. Cast 1st earth elemental 3 sec.

c. Cast 2nd earth elemental 3 sec.

d. 1st elemental hits, breaks root

e. Savage sprints towards you, pets fall behind (sprint speed > ele speed)

f. Earth Theurgist switches to cold 180DD. Gets 2 nukes in @ ~200-250 /each.

g. Savage rips and tears. Theurgist falls dead just as 2 earth elementals catch up.


lol? why in hell would you want to nuke a rooted savage? nuke a supporter instead or cast a pet at a drood. recently i find myself more and more rooting and petting than nuke... if the enemys are hibs witz 50%+ spirit resi the dd is useless anyways

"...to have only one halfway-viable spec line?"


Air is a decent all around spec - from RvR to soloing. Please don't insult Air like that. Aside from the issue that _all casters_ have with resists, I think it is about there for RvR utility.


Ice is the worst off with having to go 50 for a 180 pt DD/snare and only an AoE root for CC which is on same immunity timer as root. Even worse, the ice pet is completely worthless.


Earth spec is far better than ice since you can get that (/sarcasm) awesome insta-Friction spell which we all know is _so_ uber RvR. (/sarcasm off)

Posted by your local 'Save the Theurgist' foundation member.


/bump

So can we get a TA (Theurgists Anonymus) support group going?

"1. Root the Savage, gain range. Your Theurgist is not better off to this melee beast (with no range) than any other cloth caster. Your point? "


ever try to root a savage that has a taunt (interrupt) at the same range as your root but is instacast? doesn't work so well.


other important thing to remember. name another caster whos main form of damage is a blue spell? or better yet a blue spell that uses a nuke that is blue to them. GG level 25 nuke from the ice pet. pheer. It does roughly 4 damage ... although it has a 50% resist rate.


" Your Theurgist is not better off to this melee beast (with no range) than any other cloth caster"


/agree. a manachanter or bonedancer or darkcarver would be useless against the savage with their 50% debuff, pet nuke, baseline stun and baseline nuke that hits for 550 damage.


-----------------------


beyond all that. i don't think you'll find many theurgists complaining about the air line. Its a perfectly viable line and faces the same issues that other nuke lines have (assuming they don't have a self debuff). The only real problem with the air line is that the mezz is like bards instamezz. Well, except it has a cast time, shorter range, smaller radius and roughly the same duration.


the problem with theurgists are in the earth and ice lines. ice has a variety of problems that are hard to describe. I can and have pointed out earths many problems in many ways, but i'll do it in 2 ways this time.


1) name another spell line (not including pet specs like enchantments) in the game with no way to damage enemies. the pets don't damage enemies. they will do roughly 100 damage per hit on a caster. On a tank it'll be roughly 70 damage. They swing a max of 7 times before death. Of course with 10s traveling time ... they max at 4 swings before death. Then they miss 3/4 of the swings. And that 100 damage is before melee resists. If its on a tank ... not only will they miss more but they can be evaded, blocked and parried. They are only blue, too, so that makes blocks parries and evades extra rare! Oh, and they don't style and have no to-hit bonus.


2) Runemaster Suppression spec line - Bladeturn (all forms), Nearsight, DD/Snare, AoE DD/Snare, Confusion

Warden Nurture spec line - 38% haste buff (theurgist baseline haste caps at 21%), Body Resistance buff, Energy Resistance buff, Spirit Resistance buff, Gimp speed (same as baseline theurgist speed), 7.5 dps damage add chant that uses 0 power, Instant Cast PBT, Bladeturn.

Theurgists Abrasion spec line - single target combat speed debuff (19% max), Earth elemental, Bladeturn (all forms).


note that as our only form of spec line doing something (since the pet is useless) we have the combat speed debuff. It'd be nice if that didn't make tanks hit harder or at least if it had that side effect ... that we got the best version of the spell (since its the only thing we really have). Instead enchanters get it in the light line with their spec nuke.


Seems we got the long end of the utility stick there. glad i chose the games utility line in the games utility caster to get all these wonderful utilities.

Bump.

 

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