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Author Topic: should transgender Birth Certificates show male or female or what? [Locked]
HeartView  4 stars
Title: Be right back...
Posts: 1,209
Registered: 2001-12-20 08:11:56
Exactly, but do you really expect that to change? In all of human history, those with the compassion and willingness to openly aide those around them are a very small minority. Selfishness is survival.

 

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JoannPrinzivalli
Posts: 1
Registered:
In 1965, the prevailing medical opinion was that trans people were delusional individuals properly assigned to the original sex, for whom any treatment was merely "palliative." Between 1995 and the present, there have been numerous scientific medical studies that have established that trans people are genetically and developmentally different than persons assigned to the original sex, and genetic predispositions for this sort of development have been found. Over at my blog, I cite to these studies as an attachment to my June 2011 letter to New York State Senate Majority Leader Dean Skelos. See:


http://trans-cendence.blogspot.com/2011/06/my-june-14-2011-letter-to-dean-skelos.html


Birth certificates designate "male" and "female." If one is trans, one does not really belong to the original incorrect designation. The doctor's opinion as to the individual's sex is what is recorded on the certificate, and it should be corrected on establishing that the designation was in error.
HeartView  4 stars
Title: Be right back...
Posts: 1,209
Registered: 2001-12-20 08:11:56
JoannPrinzivalli posted:

In 1965, the prevailing medical opinion was that trans people were delusional individuals properly assigned to the original sex, for whom any treatment was merely "palliative." Between 1995 and the present, there have been numerous scientific medical studies that have established that trans people are genetically and developmentally different than persons assigned to the original sex, and genetic predispositions for this sort of development have been found. Over at my blog, I cite to these studies as an attachment to my June 2011 letter to New York State Senate Majority Leader Dean Skelos. See:

http://trans-cendence.blogspot.com/2011/06/my-june-14-2011-letter-to-dean-skelos.html

Birth certificates designate "male" and "female." If one is trans, one does not really belong to the original incorrect designation. The doctor's opinion as to the individual's sex is what is recorded on the certificate, and it should be corrected on establishing that the designation was in error.



But that is NOT true in all cases, just like not all people that have sex with someone of the same gender are "gay". Some people just like sex, regardless who or what is giving or receiving. Not everyone that changes their sexual organs does it because of some built-in desire to fix their body to match their mind's view of what they should be. There are no 100% rules on any of this.

 

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Crafty_ac2  1 star
Posts: 99
Registered: 2002-12-8 23:08:07
Dark_EternalFF posted:

AliHajiSheik posted:

It's a birth certificate, not a currently certificate.



Yeah, I ah...gotta go with this.



this.

 

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Shenron_  3 stars
Posts: 543
Registered: 2002-12-8 21:34:16
AliHajiSheik posted:

It's a birth certificate, not a currently certificate.
Allmightybob_MLF  2 stars
Title: Occult Amuck
Posts: 334
Registered: 2004-3-22 23:15:57
HeartView posted:

You are not born religious.



Some parents would disagree. If you don't feel our freshly born baby hasn't an opinion yet. Just put down "agnostic".


HeartView posted:

And the color of your skin often changes from birth.



It's a birth certificate, not a currently certificate.


HeartView posted:

Some birth certificates include race, though.



!
Gaevren  4 stars
Title: Wat do?
Posts: 1,181
Registered: 2004-9-15 09:29:36
Allmightybob_MLF posted:

HeartView posted:

You are not born religious.



Some parents would disagree. If you don't feel our freshly born baby hasn't an opinion yet. Just put down "agnostic".


HeartView posted:

And the color of your skin often changes from birth.



It's a birth certificate, not a currently certificate.


HeartView posted:

Some birth certificates include race, though.



!



All of that is beside the point. Whether you declare your gender identity to be opposite of how you were born, or even if you go through the sex surgery thing, the one thing you can never change is the chromosomes. You're either XX or XY, male or female, and they use the very obvious visual signs of that to put down on the birth cert.

 

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Allmightybob_MLF  2 stars
Title: Occult Amuck
Posts: 334
Registered: 2004-3-22 23:15:57
Gaevren posted:

All of that is beside the point. Whether you declare your gender identity to be opposite of how you were born, or even if you go through the sex surgery thing, the one thing you can never change is the chromosomes. You're either XX or XY, male or female, and they use the very obvious visual signs of that to put down on the birth cert.



Or XXY

Or XXX

Or XO

Or YO

Or XXXX

....
HeartView  4 stars
Title: Be right back...
Posts: 1,209
Registered: 2001-12-20 08:11:56
Allmightybob_MLF posted:

HeartView posted:

You are not born religious.



Some parents would disagree. If you don't feel our freshly born baby hasn't an opinion yet. Just put down "agnostic".



This is one of those topics that are nearly impossible to debate online. Suffice it to say that my stance is that a baby cannot "have religion" at birth as it is not a trait that can be passed from parent to child. Feel free to disagree.


Allmightybob_MLF posted:

HeartView posted:

And the color of your skin often changes from birth.



It's a birth certificate, not a currently certificate.



A point I made earlier as well. It is, however, an easily discernible and factual characteristic of the newborn baby. Maybe a photo of the baby should be included with the certificate?


Allmightybob_MLF posted:

HeartView posted:

Some birth certificates include race, though.



!



I assumed this isn't just about the US. Different countries do it differently, there are even some variations among the states of the US.

 

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HeartView  4 stars
Title: Be right back...
Posts: 1,209
Registered: 2001-12-20 08:11:56
Gaevren posted:

All of that is beside the point. Whether you declare your gender identity to be opposite of how you were born, or even if you go through the sex surgery thing, the one thing you can never change is the chromosomes. You're either XX or XY, male or female, and they use the very obvious visual signs of that to put down on the birth cert.



While I'm on your side (I think) in this debate, that isn't 100% true. There are some genetic abnormalities where people are born with only one X chromosome (I know someone personally with this condition called Turner Syndrome) as well as XXY. There are very likely others as well. My point is that perhaps just simply stating the letter combinations that apply would be better than picking between XX and XY.

 

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