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Author Topic: Could I destroy the entire Roman Empire if I traveled back in time with with a modern Marine infantr [Locked]
Sith_Mauler  4 stars
Posts: 1,851
Registered: 2002-12-21 13:40:03
levgre posted:

Sith_Mauler posted:

levgre posted:

Sith_Mauler posted:

levgre posted:

aon_mixed posted:

what a 155 looks like after it explodes



imagine that ripping through a crowd of lightly armored soldiers



I don't think they'd crowd up, Romans have knowledge and experience with area effect weapons. They were very flexible with their tactics.



no they arent,Roman legions are basically rank and file massed formations.
that break down into smaller groups of rank and file formations.



If you think that is close to the extent of Roman tactics... well you should read some instead of basing it off Rome: Total War.




I have studied military history legions have to form up, otherwise they ineffective.


Of course, because they were fighting opponents who were basically always in similarly packed formations. So yes forgoing proper military tactics would make them ineffective.

They had the best logistics/planning/communication, they would have the flexibility to forgo a typical rank formation.


if they have the training, but they wherent trained to be independent thinkers within a group.

history shows every time a legion was caught unprepared for battle, they where slaughtered Hannibal did it, the Huns and then the Gauls all learned to beat the Romans, you cant let them form up.

 

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uglydwarf  1 star
Posts: 129
Registered: 2005-2-4 08:37:07
this type of story has been done before. look up S.M. Stirlings' island in the sea of time,(island of Nantucket ends up back around 1000-1500 BC) or john ringo's 1632.(redneck mining town winds up in 1632 germany).
you start by saving what high tech gear you have for when the defecation hits the oscillation. gear down to a tech level equal to about the 1860's. black powder percussion cap weapons, early breach loading black powder cannon and the like.or, if they can find the materials, early self contained cartridge weapons like the cold peacemaker. marines aren't ALL idiots. in a MEU you can bet there are a wide range of skills, from knowing how to make a still to how to make caps for the black powder guns, and the black powder. the medical personnel will know how to treat and prevent disease. there will be someone who knows enough chemistry to make biodisel for at least some of the vehicles.

then, first, you don't piss off the locals when you are building your tech base. if you find yourself heading in the direction of a war with someone, start recruiting their enemies to fight with you.
you don't use your troops as just fighters. they have brains and training. use it. one good squad could be used to train a platoon of locals armed with black powder guns. same the good stuff for when it can make a real difference in a battle.

EDIT:

something else to think about. the average "big tall strong legionary" was about 5 foot 2. what is the reaction going to be when they see soldiers coming at them that are anywhere from 5 ft 6 to over 6 feet, firing things at them that they can't even see flying, from distances that their best slingers can't see much lest shoot( depending on the era, rome used old fashioned slings not archers)
Cuttlery  4 stars
Title: Wanna see what you missed?
Posts: 2,631
Registered: 2001-1-9 19:31:21
Sith_Mauler posted:

Cuttlery posted:

Sith_Mauler posted:

I have studied military history legions have to form up, otherwise they ineffective.



Plus he was in the military, a General even! Even though he seems to know little about it..



who is the idiot that thinks horse mounted archers is more effective that 155mm howitzer?



Well you are probably right, the Romans after seeing lines decimated by a howitzer once would probably never change tactics to use the immobility to their advantage... They did have some of the best generals in history after all. You are the military expert after all. They'd probably have just stood there 2 miles away and waved the shells in instead of moving and using the horse speed and their sheer numbers and knowledge of the terrain to their advantage.

 

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levgre  3 stars
Posts: 606
Registered: 2001-10-24 07:24:49
Sith_Mauler posted:

history shows every time a legion was caught unprepared for battle, they where slaughtered Hannibal did it, the Huns and then the Gauls all learned to beat the Romans, you cant let them form up.



Any army caught unprepared is at a severe disadvantage, regardless of formation. The cause of defeat would not be their formation tactics.

 

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Sith_Mauler  4 stars
Posts: 1,851
Registered: 2002-12-21 13:40:03
levgre posted:

Sith_Mauler posted:

history shows every time a legion was caught unprepared for battle, they where slaughtered Hannibal did it, the Huns and then the Gauls all learned to beat the Romans, you cant let them form up.



Any army caught unprepared is at a severe disadvantage, regardless of formation. The cause of defeat would not be their formation tactics.



no that is war there is no rules that say hey I am going to let you form your army up so you can just use zerg tactics.

ask the British how mass formations worked out for them.

 

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Sith_Mauler  4 stars
Posts: 1,851
Registered: 2002-12-21 13:40:03
Cuttlery posted:

Sith_Mauler posted:

Cuttlery posted:

Sith_Mauler posted:


I have studied military history legions have to form up, otherwise they ineffective.



Plus he was in the military, a General even! Even though he seems to know little about it..



who is the idiot that thinks horse mounted archers is more effective that 155mm howitzer?



Well you are probably right, the Romans after seeing lines decimated by a howitzer once would probably never change tactics to use the immobility to their advantage... They did have some of the best generals in history after all. You are the military expert after all. They'd probably have just stood there 2 miles away and waved the shells in instead of moving and using the horse speed and their sheer numbers and knowledge of the terrain to their advantage.


2 miles

cutt arty has a range of 20 miles.
they would die before they even saw what shot them.

 

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Cuttlery  4 stars
Title: Wanna see what you missed?
Posts: 2,631
Registered: 2001-1-9 19:31:21
Sith_Mauler posted:

2 miles cutt arty has a range of 20 miles.

they would die before they even saw what shot them.



And how exactly oh great general and military mind is artillery going to aim at anything from that far out with no communications, no GPS. They just going to plant it and randomly fire? Even better for the Romans if thats the case. You are making this easy for them.

 

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aon_mixed  4 stars
Title:
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Posts: 2,317
Registered: 2002-8-19 07:30:30
well, they likely have fallback comms, like UHF or VHF radios that span dozens of miles. all an artillery battery would need is a forward observer and a radio to walk in the rounds from a good distance from the firing line

 

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levgre  3 stars
Posts: 606
Registered: 2001-10-24 07:24:49
Sith_Mauler posted:

levgre posted:

Sith_Mauler posted:

history shows every time a legion was caught unprepared for battle, they where slaughtered Hannibal did it, the Huns and then the Gauls all learned to beat the Romans, you cant let them form up.



Any army caught unprepared is at a severe disadvantage, regardless of formation. The cause of defeat would not be their formation tactics.



no that is war there is no rules that say hey I am going to let you form your army up so you can just use zerg tactics.

ask the British how mass formations worked out for them.



The vast majority of the time the army would be prepped with battle lines, and soldiers would be close enough to get into battle formation within a very short time. You use scouting and see the thousands of men in the distance.

Properly forming an army up is little issue with the quality of command they had. Victory/defeat would result from other factors. And saying they just used zerg tactics makes you sound really ignorant.

 

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Sith_Mauler  4 stars
Posts: 1,851
Registered: 2002-12-21 13:40:03
Cuttlery posted:

Sith_Mauler posted:

2 miles cutt arty has a range of 20 miles.
they would die before they even saw what shot them.



And how exactly oh great general and military mind is artillery going to aim at anything from that far out with no communications, no GPS. They just going to plant it and randomly fire? Even better for the Romans if thats the case. You are making this easy for them.



a spotter with a set of binoculars a compass and a map with a grid system.
like they did in the old days.

you act like the military has to have gps to fight a war.
seriously you are the fool in the thread.

 

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Well I ain't first class
But I ain't white trash
I'm wild and a little crazy too
I have seen a lot of things in my life time.
That is why I walk the line I walk.

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