I don't get this. If that's the biggest problem people have with a FFA server... wtf are they playing on it for???

I don't see anyone here suggesting that ALL WoW servers should be ffa. Since its an option, it stands to reason the people on it are willing to use the tools available to them to counteract this sort of behavior.

The truth is FFA PvP is not for everyone and never will be.

It takes a different mindset to survive, succeed, thrive, and LIKE ffa PvP. Most the people here are referring to Darktide. I never played AC so I can't comment on that. But I play EVE. A very large proportion of EVE's space is 0.0 security, which means anyone can shoot at anyone without repercussions - ie, ffa pvp. But the playerbase in 0.0 has adapted to those rules. They've formed groups of mutual protection - corporations, or alliances (multiple corporations), and at the highest end entire coalitions of alliances (BFF! o7 ). It evolved to the point where the solo griefer was in far more danger himself than his targets were. Only the most courageous would venture out into hostile space and try to hunt people down alone. The rest - group fighting, fleet battles which are what makes Eve so great (at least, before the lagmonster destroyed the game an expansion or two ago). It was frequently noted that if you were flying an expensive toy with billions in modules, you were probably safer in 0.0 than high security space because of the aforementioned tools.

Ironically, because of the players' ability to police themselves, there is far less griefing in the ffa pvp areas than there is in the more controlled high security areas. The players are also a lot less likely to be tards if they might have to pay for their actions, and in 0.0 no one is absolutely safe (unless they never undock I guess).

Another example I am familiar with is rallos zek server in EQ. Most of the bad behavior, the "fansy the bard" type behavior, was limited to low levels. No one who had spent the effort to get up to the higher end was going to risk it all going up in smoke by unrestrained bad behavior. Though there were groups that detested each other on that server, and would try to kill each other when they could, they didn't spend that energy going after nobody lowbies, and the ones they did go after were by definition those who could call on in-game assistance at will - the self policing community.

I wouldn't play ffa in WoW myself because its too coddling and the tools to control it would probably be insufficient without major changes to gameplay. But I suspect if it ever did make a ffa server, it wouldn't be nearly as bad as the haters believe.

 

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It is too bad that you never did play Darktide, because those examples of FFA that you gave don't seem anything like the experience of a true FFA MMO world.

 

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So wait, only Darktide is "true ffa pvp" and nothing else is?

 

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Syrus..

If you don't let it bother you, then it cannot be a "bad" experience...


Case in point..

Recently, I was around XR with my level 13 shammy. I hopped into a WSG, had a little fun in there, and when I came out, 2 80 dks and an 80 holy pally were ripping XR to shreds.

Naturally, since I had just exited the Bg, I was flagged, and got wasted.

Now this is where most people have the meltdown, and cry and whine "griefing"...it is also the point where I just laugh it off as "part of the gig".

I resd a cupple times, not making it far, but doing what I always do when being smoked by a ?? toon..

Res right in front of them, target one, and /rofl.

die.

Res again, /chuckle

die

Res again, /facepalm...

and you know what? instead of instadeath, I got a "/salute" from the paladin, and they left me alone after that.

I trodded off to the inn, and logged out, and of course came back for some 1 vs 3 with my mage, but when i got back it was only one of the DK's.. (he didn't stay very long after dying twice)


Point being, there is always a way to deal with any situation. Unless of course you take the entire thing so personally as to believe that the only reason these people are there is to wreck your day, become emotional, and lose your cool.

It isn't personal. It's just another death in a game. A game where you chose "PVP" as a server type.

It can only become "griefing" if the person dying begins to cry and whine about it. I know that sounds harsh, but it is the simple truth.


It has never bothered me, therefore it is impossible to "grief" me.


So you have to ask yourself this question.. "Is it the player that travels to enemy territory to lay waste to a town that has the issues, or is it the person who wants and expects PVE "security" and behavior on a PVP realm that does?"


I vote the latter.

 

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yeah its pathetic if people choose to play on a pvp server then whine about the pvp. happens in WoW pvp servers all the time. just imagine how bad it would be on a ffa server.

Griefing also happens on a PvE server.


There have been so many times I've been out solo when a player on the other faction (or a group of them) decides to take out the quest NPC I was escorting, or a stealther kills the quest givers, waiting until right as I show up to talk to them, or the old hunter snake trap expolit (I know those are bad examples, it's the best I can do on sleep-deprived memory). I have a choice in how to respond:


1) /guffaw (because if you're trying this hard to get some PvP, why aren't you on a PvP server?)


2) /giggle (because if you're "this" good at PvP <cough>, why aren't you in the BGs or Arena?)


3) /shoo (because, seriously, you're on a PvE server)


4) /gu hey guys, want some fun? > (this is usually very satisfying entertainment until they finally run off after dying so much)


5) /general chat Who wants some PvP action?


6) log on to other faction and /send griefer hi, how ya doing? what's up buddy


7) have my enemy toon stand there, while they wait for a response-action from me, while I leisurely stretch, get up, get a drink, enjoy the scenery out the window, check the forums, maybe post, get a laugh from something Spooky posted, oh, and the NPC I need is back and they are gone


8) move on


Do I like griefers, no. I mean, really, who does? Unless your entertainment is testing yourself. And there are players who enjoy that. No judgement here.


Natural war-tactics that are a result of game design? That's different. If you killed that NPC hoping for some PvP, well, I can choose to do that or not. Or call that griefing or not. Maybe, you were just looking for some action. The mechanics actually let you do that. Ok, I can choose to give it to you or not. That also is part of the game design.


PvP server? I've chosen to play there. If I wander solo out into DAoC's frontier, then I have to be prepared for consequences. And yes, I have played on a WoW PvP server, as well as checking out Mordred. Not my cup of tea for an RPG game. And yes, there are choices there as well (in both action and mental/emotional responses, uh, I guess you could call that perception/attitude.)


And yes there are times when I see red. If I'm that upset, it's time for me to take a break and a long look at myself.


.....


Well crud. Having written all that up, I just realized it's beside the point of the thread. Going to post it anyway. That's my choice.


Now, as we were saying about WoW's perceived ROI for a couple of one-off servers that require on-going cost for set up and code maintenance....

 

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No doubt. I wonder this as well. But, I cannot give an answer because I truly don't understand this myself.


As far as my Aion example, I played the game through the areas where it was PvE only. As soon as the area became open to PvP, I knew I was done. And yes, I freely admit I'm carebear in the extreme.


Perhaps, and this is only a guess, they play with friends or something along those lines.


People hate the free-for-all idea because they've encountered too many bastards in their limited PvP experiences. You know the type:


1. They kill the quest NPC.

2. They kill the escort NPC.

3. They raid the starter areas and try to flag beginners.

4. They stand inside mobs hoping you'll flag.


And yes, this does generate not-so-nice feelings toward those players. Many people cannot seperate their emotion from the game. Look at some of the stupidity in trade channel for example. To them, a free-for-all server would be akin to the last circle of hell.


Not saying it's right, but I am saying it is what it is.


Finally, I mention carebear because, let's keep it real, World of Warcraft is King of Carebear. It'll never have a free-for-all server unless or until Blizzard becomes desperate for money.


And I don't see that happening in the near future.

 

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There is a SINGLE solution to every statement made here against FFA PvP, stop being a pretentious [tos_profanity] and make some friends.

 

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Ah, there's the differences in opinion regarding griefing between Gutter and I that I referred to. Your reaction doesn't matter. It is the other person's actions. Someone broke into my house last year and stole 2 laptops and 2 50" TVs. I didn't much care because my insurance paid me replacement value very quickly. My reaction doesn't make it any less wrong.

If you are an ass, it doesn't matter how tolerant the other person is.... you're still an ass. It's just a matter of different definitions. You regard griefing as causing another player grief which you're right- you can't be griefed if you don't care by your definition. However, I think of griefing as the more general "acting like an ass for no reason."

 

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There you go again, speaking for the masses. What you need to say is: "in MY limited PvP experiences...." You know why that is? Because as soon as the zones are PvP, you are out of there. So the only time you ever have PvP experiences is..... against your will!! Gee, I wonder why you would hate FFA?

No one said it was for everyone, but stop assuming that either A)everyone has the same view of it as you do, or B) they are wrong or inexperienced.

 

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