This isn't a troll post, despite what you might think. The recent MMOs that have come out all feature some form of alternate advancement and some contemporary to this title do as well. Part of the reason I've grown so bored with the game right now is that I've hit a wall progressing my character. If I don't raid, I get nothing. That's fine, I have no issue with that model. If I had the time, I'd raid again. Raiding should always afford the best upgrades as the content is the most difficult and time consuming.

That being said, one of the things I genuinely miss about AoC / WAR / EQ2 were their Alternate Advancement systems. End game constructions that allowed you to further tweak / customize your character's stats and abilities by distributing points earned for accomplishing deeds at the level cap. With Cataclysm, we have even LESS customization from raid composition due to homogenization to personal customization with stat reductions. This seems to be compounded by the lack of an AA system which, originally, was slated to be put in to Cataclysm. The removal of the Path of the Titans really kicked me in the balls.

To that end, why do you think the Designers have stuck with a purely gear based progression model? Why is there no Alternate Advancement in WoW?

Each tier of advancement is setup in a way that allows you to be the best at that tier. Allowing you to upgrade beyond that tier over gears your character for the tier but allows you access to the next tier. If you don't raid you don't need raid gear. Leveling > dungeon > heroic dungeon > raid > heroic raid.

I thought the devs had posted they might add some form of AA but it has always ended up on the "someday" list. I don't think they are opposed to it - just never came up with an idea for it that fit or seemed urgent to add.

 

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I think you kind of missed the point. AA isn't about gearing, although it may have an impact. For example, you farm X 'fame' or something and you are allowed to distribute that into a point of Strength. Nothing huge, but something to promote more customization and a different path of progression outside of the traditional process you pointed out. AA, from other games I've played, only has a tremendous impact at the upper tiers of distribution but they could design it to not interfere substantially with their raid tuning. That much I believe.

Fame->skill point distribution / further crafting specialization (Gear? Recipes?) / Fluff
Leveling->Dungeon->Heroic->Raid->Heroic Raid
PVP-

DCUO you get Skill Points for new weapons/passive stat increases by doing achievements, or "Feats" as they're called. Every 100 Feat points = 1 skill point. Various feats award 10, 25, or 50 points.

I'm told SWTOR will have this same system.


edit: Problem with AA from EQ/EQ2 was you needed a certain requirement for the harder dungoens/raiding. It didn't become something to do in the offtime, but a requirement before doing raids, etc.

 

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Additional stat progression would make balancing the game even harder than it currently is. Also, ss I understand it, I would agree that raiding gear is basically an AA system.

Also, if you want some additional character advancement other than PvP or raiding, there's plenty of other paths such as achievements, pet and mount collection, crafting, etc. I feel like people bring up AA from time to time, but don't really understand what they want or are even asking for.

As for the OP, I think the game has become somewhat more generic than it used to be because it's too big to manage otherwise. The more customization that's added, the more development time that's needed. It's a core problem for most software developers.

 

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Hiero what your suggesting is cool, however I can't see it being fit into WoW's current model. What your suggesting is a pretty complex highly customizable system, WoW is moving in the other direction, simpler, fixed route.

All changes to the game up to this point follow that trend, heck we even got rid of the weapon skill stats.

For what you suggest to work, the AA would have to have at least a minor impact to your actual game play. Meaning adding a few points to STR here or there wouldn't impact you game play at all, therefor players would quickly realize there is no real reward here.

On the other hand if this AA does offer significant advancement then you are going to hit balancing issues. You also run into Kewks point. You may not be asking for gearing, but any advancement to your character is going to make your character 'better', faster, stronger. For what purpose? If you have accomplished the heroic content and just don't want to raid, your character will be strong enough to beat the heroic content. Switching over to AA at that point and improving your character that way will make your character, what(?) exactly? Complete heroic content even easier?

Or are you looking to be able to become stronger PvP? I think we have those systems.

So assuming that we could implement some sort of AA, after heroics, but before raids. Aside from just giving players one more axe to grind, to what point and purpose are you advancing your character at this point?

 

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WoW is all about gear. This is self evident, isn't it? There's no appearance tab, there's no AA's, they want you to be defined by your gear, and they want to have the power to knock you down to zero (reset) whenever they want to.


I'm not sure if WoW is king because everyone wants this, or they do this because WoW is fun to play, and many systems would be acceptable.

 

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I'd say the latter. I really enjoyed playing WoW all these years, (since release). I have enjoyed many aspects of the game, but one thing I think we can all agree on, is that when it game to end game the fun-o-meter starts to waiver. At this point however we have invested so much into our characters and our guilds that we make it work and we squeeze what ever good and fun there is in the current system and make it work.

Until WoW resets us again, gives us that 'fun' back. Where we are advancing, finding new things and by that I mean not just hunting for that 'best per slot'. Rince and Repeat.

I think a different end game system could work. Is it too late in WoW's time-line to try it? I don't know. Will they even bother to revamp a system that has worked as well as it has for six years? Is it even worth it considering the 'new project'?

There is going to be a point when Blizzard says to the WoW Dev team, "Look, the new project is coming, we've had a tremendous success in WoW, but at this point we are not thinking of new ideas, we just need to ride this out until we can launch the new one." Are we there already? *shrug*

 

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I really have to agree with Syrus. WoW needs some sort of different end game system to stop the end game boredom train. However, I do think its too late to do it. As it is now, pvp and pve are both just gear grinds to get gear only usable in its respective grind system. Neither side wants much to do with the other. So, any end game reworking would have a very difficult line to walk. Most likely, any implementation would be watered down and just anger both sides. DAoC style, while fun for us pvp types, is all but unpalatable by the pve crowd. New raids usually require a while new expansion and usually have the same unpalatable taste to the pvp crowd. Unfortunatly, blizz is so vested in its current carrot and stick gear method that its too late to change it now without totally bringing down the house of cards.