Arcilite_I posted:

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Spooky does indeed provide a valuable service to the community. Feels good shoving somebody's nose in their own stinkhole doesn't it?

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GutterSludge posted:

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The only point I could make is that, even if the game in question has multiple avenues for progression, one could still feel like they were questing on rails...

No facts required.

For instance, a blood elf can be brand new, take the time to run to Undercity, take the boat to org,(or dip over to Brill) then run to Sin Jin to begin questing.

This, however, requires about 2 hours of wasted time just running...so one might feel like they are forced to quest in the silvermoon area, even though alternatives do exist....

The opposite is also possible, where one player feels that since it is possible to level in different areas (even though it requires several deaths, and hours to do so), then one cannot say the system is "on rails"...


This doesn't really apply to this debate, since both parties are attempting to stand on the absolutes that it either is, or isn't..but most of the debates on this board are opinion based, and require absolutely no proof of fact whatsoever.

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JaconKin posted:

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Well I will provide the Evidence you won't since all you can do is continue to try to discredit me. I can admit when I'm wrong, in this though I am right. Since you want to bring up the issue of opinions, since that is all you have offered with out evidence, and facts, all that I have done, well here goes the facts.

Dromund Kaas:

Sith Warrior:
1st Mission:
You've reported to Darth Baras at the Citadel, and he's instructed you to oversee the transfer of a prisoner at Cargo Port B7.

Commander Lanklyn is the officer in charge of the operation. Head to Cargo Port B7 in Kaas City to make sure that nothing goes awry.
Tasks:

Go to Cargo Port B7
Defeat Slestack and His Thugs
Defeat TuMarr and His Thugs
Speak to Commander Lanklyn
Defeat Slestack's Thugs
Defeat TuMarr's Thugs

2nd Mission:

Darth Baras has instructed you to meet with Commander Pritch.

Commander Pritch will have further details on what needs to be done. Head to the Imperial post near the unfinished colossus to meet him.
Tasks:

Defeat Rebel Slave Captains
Bonus mission: Quashing the Rebellion
Find the Captains' Logs
Bonus mission: Quashing the Rebellion
Return to Darth Baras

3rd Mission:
Darth Baras has instructed you to meet with Dri'kill Ba'al, his undercover spy at the Grathan compound.

Dri'kill Ba'al will have a mission for you that will demonstrate that Lord Grathan is not untouchable. Find Dri'kill Ba'al at the Warehouse Offices on Lord Grathan's Estate.
Tasks:

Speak to Dri'kill Ba'al
Destroy the Elevator Monitoring Station
Destroy the Main Room Monitoring Station
Destroy the Hallway Monitoring Station
Unlock the Security Door
Find Beelzlit Grathan
Speak to Cellvanta Grathan
Defeat Cellvanta Grathan
Defeat Beelzlit Grathan
Open the Door to Grathan's Private Chamber
Find Lord Grathan
Speak to Lord Grathan
Defeat Lord Grathan and Take His Mask
Defeat Dri'kill Ba'al
Defeat Grathan's Guards
Return to Darth Baras

4th Mission:

Darth Baras's attempts to break Grik Sonosan have hit a standstill. In order to gain the information he craves, Darth Baras requires an ancient torture device from the Dark Temple called the Ravager.
Tasks:

Find the Ravager
Recover Ravager Components
Return to the Ravager
Speak to Lord Vacuus
Defeat Lord Vacuus
Defeat the Deranged Excavators
Repair the Ravager

5th Mission:

Darth Baras has sent you to get your own starship at its private hangar in the Dromund Kaas spaceport, then contact him via the holoterminal on the ship's bridge.
Tasks:

Go to the Sith Warrior Hanger
Bonus mission: Endplanet Crawl
Speak to Ralesk
Defeat Ralesk

Balmora:

1st Mission:
Contact Made

Nomen Karr's Padawan has leveled suspicion on two of Darth Baras's spies. These spies must be eliminated before they are exposed.

Use your ship's galaxy map to travel to Balmorra, then contact Baras via your holocommunicator for further instructions.
Tasks:

Travel to Balmorra
Use Your Ship's Holoterminal
Go to Lieutenant Malavai Quinn's Office

2nd Mission:
Erase the Past

According to Darth Baras, sensitive material exists in the satellite control tower mainframe that will prove Commander Rylon's involvement in the sabotage of Balmorra's defenses during the war.

Lieutenant Quinn has supplied you with the explosives. Head to the satellite control tower in the Markaran Plains and detonate the mainframe computer.
Tasks:

Plant the Explosives
Bonus mission: Erase Them for Good

3rd Mission:
According to Darth Baras, Ensign Durmat, Commander Rylon's son, knows his father's true allegiance and is being held in the brig of Republic Outpost Victory, waiting to be questioned by an investigator sent by the Jedi.

Darth Baras has ordered you to silence Ensign Durmat before he can reveal the truth about Commander Rylon. Head to Republic Outpost Victory and find Ensign Durmat in the brig.
Tasks:

Locate Ensign Durmat
Bonus mission: Throw Away the Key
Speak to Ensign Durmat
Bonus mission: Throw Away the Key
Defeat Jailer Zixx
Defeat the Republic Special Forces
Bonus mission: Throw Away the Key
Retrieve the Amnesia Drug
Return to Ensign Durmat

4th Mission:
To Kill a Legend

With the satellite control tower mainframe detonated and Ensign Durmat silenced, it is time to receive your final instructions from Darth Baras.

Lieutenant Malavai Quinn has given you private use of his office's holoterminal. Contact Darth Baras using the holoterminal.
Tasks:

Use the Office Holoterminal
Find Commander Rylon
Speak to Captain Eligyn
Defeat Captain Eligyn
Defeat the Black Battalion Commandos
Defeat Commander Rylon
Bonus mission: endplanet crawl
Use Your Personal Holocom
Intercept the Jedi Knight
Speak to Jedi Knight Mashallon
Defeat Jedi Knight Mashallon
Return to Lieutenant Malavai Quinn
Go to Your Ship Hanger
Speak to Lieutenant Malavai Quinn

Nar Shadda:
1st Mission:
Disrupt Negotiations

In order to eliminate Darth Baras's former spy, Agent Dellocon, you must draw his protector, Lord Rathari, into a confrontation by destroying all of his operations.

Your contact, Halidrell Setsyn, has informed you that Lord Rathari is strong-arming the Hutt Cartel out of some territory. Interrupt Rathari's negotiations at the Hutt Cartel safe house in the Duros Sector.
Tasks:

Go to the Hutt Cartel Safe House
Defeat Apprentice Girik
Defeat Hutt Cartel Bodyguards

2nd Mission:
An Army of One

In order to eliminate Darth Baras's former spy, Agent Dellocon, you must draw his protector, Lord Rathari, into a confrontation by destroying all of his operations.

Your contact, Halidrell Setsyn, has directed you to disrupt Lord Rathari's siege on Outpost Shylon in the Upper Industrial Sector.
Tasks:

Go to Republic Outpost Shylon
Bonus mission: Bringing Up the Rear
Speak to General Kligton
Defeat General Kligton
Bonus mission: Bringing Up the Rear
Defeat Imperial Soldiers
Bonus mission: Bringing Up the Rear
Destroy the Barricade
Deal with the Republic Forces
Defeat Lieutenant Weggland
Defeat Republic Soldiers

Third Mission:
Operation Rescue

While answering Halidrell Setsyn's distress call you have encountered some of Rathari's Imperial soldiers. Defeat them with impunity
Tasks:

Defeat the Imperials

4th Mission:
To Kill a Sith Lord

Your target, Agent Dellocon, is under the protection of Darth Baras's rival, Lord Rathari. To gain access to Dellocon, you have thwarted all of Rathari's power-grab attempts.

In retaliation, Rathari has killed your contact, Halidrell Setsyn, and challenged you to a duel at his satellite platform in Network Access.
Tasks:

Meet with Lord Rathari
Bonus mission: Rathari's Entourage
Speak to Lord Rathari
Defeat Elite Imperial Soldiers
Defeat Lord Rathari
Bonus mission: Rathari's Entourage
Defeat Agent Dellocon
Bonus mission: Rathari's Entourage

Tatooine:
1st Mission:
Seek Answers

Darth Baras has ordered you to hunt down and destroy those who are close to Nomen Karr's Padawan. He is certain this will draw her out.

She trained on Tatooine. Use your ship's galaxy map to travel toTatooine, then contact Baras via your holocommunicator for further instructions.
Tasks:

Travel to Tatooine
Use Your Ship's Holoterminal
Speak to Sharack Breev
Speak to Izzeebowe Jeef
Bonus mission: Deal with the Exchange

2nd Mission:
Demon's Blood

With the help of your guide, Sharack Breev, you are following the path that Nomen Karr's Padawan took to find a legendary Jedi Master named Yonlach. Your mission on Tatooine is to kill Yonlach.

First, you must confront the ancient Sand Demon that the Padawan used in an old Jedi ritual. Take a speeder to Outpost Varath in Jundland. Then travel to the Shattered Basin and find the Sand Demon's cave.
Tasks:

Search the Sand Demon's Cave
Bonus mission: Clean out Sand Demon's Cave
Approach the Sand Demon
Defeat the Sand Demon
Bonus mission: Bleed the Sand
Trail the Padawan's Movements
Explore the Chieftain's Cave
Search the Hut for Clues

3rd Mission:
Oasis

With the help of your guide, Sharack Breev, you are following the path that Nomen Karr's Padawan took to find a legendary Jedi Master named Yonlach. Your mission on Tatooine is to kill Yonlach.

The Sand People chieftain surrendered a map that points you to a mysterious oasis in the deep desert. Take a speeder to Mos Anek and find the oasis in Jundland.
Tasks:

Trek to the Oasis
Bonus mission: Bleed the Wound
Defeat Your Reflection

4th Mission:
With the help of your guide, Sharack Breev, you are following the path that Nomen Karr's Padawan took to find a legendary Jedi Master named Yonlach. Your mission on Tatooine is to kill Yonlach.

You have been granted a vision by your reflection that tells you where Master Yonlach can be found. Take a speeder to Outpost Zaroshe in the Dune Sea and confront Jedi Master Yonlach at his domain.
Tasks:

Confront Master Yonlach
Speak to Master Yonlach
Defeat Master Yonlach
Defeat Yul-li
Talk to Sharack Breev


I kept in the quests were you go and make contact or in the case of Kaas when you get the ship, to pad the number, you take that out though and it's normally three or four quests on that planet. Anybody want to know who is really lying, just go to TOR head. click on the planets, count the number of quests there are for each class at the level for that planet, indicated by the single symbol for that class, it will be 3-4. Note, some planets, such as Dromound Kaas will have higher level missions ,as previously stated, sometimes you get sent back to these planets at higher levels as interludes between one Chapter of your Story to the Next.

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JaconKin posted:

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I suggest you look over this link Korrigan, you might learn something about proper debate, argument, logic and reason e.g. intelligence.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/

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GutterSludge posted:

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I'm not sure what you mean...

The 80-85 section of Cata is like this to an extent,while in an area.. but the next available are opens up based on level, not quests completed.

Ie one does not have to complete Hyjal in order to hit Deepholm, nor does on have to finish that to move on to Uldum or Twilight highlands.


Technically one could run dungeons and bg's to 83 or 84, and do their first questing in Twilight Highlands, having never set foot in any of the other areas.

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Korrigan posted:

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Almost each steps within what you call "missions" is an independent quest. As I said, what you dumb down into a single quest, is in reality several quests in a row, that you intentionally simplify just to fit your agenda and to not have to admit being wrong.

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JaredKorry posted:

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True, but what I think he means is that one you go to a zone to start questing, you *have* to start at a particular place and do the quests in order in order to open other quests in the area.

In your example of Twilight Highlands, you *have* to start with the quests on the boat and proceed through the ones on the beach before you get a quest that opens up the dwarf town that has all the dailies for farming rep.

You aren't able to just skip everything else and go straight to that town because the quests won't show up until you do all the other quests first. If the questing is like that in TOR, that is disappointing.

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GutterSludge posted:

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I'm not sure what you mean...

The 80-85 section of Cata is like this to an extent,while in an area.. but the next available are opens up based on level, not quests completed.

Ie one does not have to complete Hyjal in order to hit Deepholm, nor does on have to finish that to move on to Uldum or Twilight highlands.


Technically one could run dungeons and bg's to 83 or 84, and do their first questing in Twilight Highlands, having never set foot in any of the other areas.

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