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Topic:
Cataclysm Post Mortem -- Dungeons and Raids with Scott ?Daelo? Mercer [Locked] |
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
Cataclysm Post Mortem -- Dungeons and Raids with Scott ?Daelo? Mercer |
Pantherr posted:
The way I see it, if you have to practice at something in order to get better at it, it takes skill. And I strongly disagree with your statement that teamwork does not take skill. Being able to coordinate your actions with the actions of others to achieve a common goal does indeed take skill, whether it is a video game or a team sport. A well oiled team working together is a beautiful thing. 
Guttersludge posted:
"To be in "top end gear" in WOW does not require skill. It requires 25 people that actually give a shit about being in top end gear, and that is it.
Make "top end gear" available from solo instances, and the number of people in "top end gear" explodes exponentially, which proves the point nicely."
I disagree with these statements. Put "25 people that actually give a shit about being in top end gear", throw them in a raid and they will fail. They would need to study the encounter and practice it a couple of times if they ever hoped to win.
As for your second comment about putting top end gear in solo dungeons, well duh! Of course if you put top end gear in solo dungeons, more people would have it. Solo dungeons are not as challenging and require a great deal less teamwork or skill to complete. Not sure where you were going with that horrible analogy.
Teamwork "skill" required for WOW...
"Raid is at 8:00" (and 25 people actually show up)
Walah. Done deal. Massive skill required there!!
Teamwork is NOT skill, nor has it ever been, which is why they are two different words, with completely different meanings.
WOW is not, nor has it ever been, a skill based game. It is a grind/gear based game. You can attempt to debate this all you want, but the only person you are fooling is yourself.
If it WERE skill based, a brand new 85 would be able to defeat all content with very little gear upgrades.
Edit: This is why the Cata changes were met with millions of people leaving. The dungeons weren't really that HARD, in that they required any more SKILL than any other version...they just became much more TEDIOUS.
Tedium is NOT difficulty.
-----signature-----
Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:"  ea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
Cataclysm Post Mortem -- Dungeons and Raids with Scott ?Daelo? Mercer |
Guttersludge posted:
"Teamwork "skill" required for WOW...
"Raid is at 8:00" (and 25 people actually show up)
Walah. Done deal. Massive skill required there!!"
I'm not sure if you are just trolling or if you honestly believe that. If it were as simple as you claim, then every single player in WoW would have completed every single raid in WoW.
It's okay to admit that you don't enjoy raiding. I don't enjoy it either. I don't have the time or patience to invest in studying and practicing the fights enough to be able to finish them.
But your statement that people just have to show up in order to beat an encounter or raid is ridiculous. As much as you want to look down your nose at raids and/or raiders, you do have to know what you and your team mates are doing if you want to finish a raid.
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
Cataclysm Post Mortem -- Dungeons and Raids with Scott ?Daelo? Mercer |
Whether I believe it or not is irrelevant.
It's just as much the truth with or without my beliefs.
The sun rises in the East, my beliefs matter not.
Gravity Exists.
WOW is a gear based grind game, not a skill based MMO.
Belief has absolutely nothing to do with it.
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Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:" ea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother. |
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
Cataclysm Post Mortem -- Dungeons and Raids with Scott ?Daelo? Mercer |
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You win. I simply don't care enough to debate this with you any longer since you are so obviously stuck to your opinions. I give up. Believe whatever you want.
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Ayadread  Posts: 66
Registered: 2006-3-15 11:24:05
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
Cataclysm Post Mortem -- Dungeons and Raids with Scott ?Daelo? Mercer |
Gutter is still clueless, nice to see some things never change.
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Daoc - Forever #1
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
Cataclysm Post Mortem -- Dungeons and Raids with Scott ?Daelo? Mercer |
WOW is a gear based grind game, not a skill based MMO.
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Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:" ea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother. |
Quazimortal  Title: The One and Only
Posts: 1,557
Registered: 2004-9-18 21:52:58
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
Cataclysm Post Mortem -- Dungeons and Raids with Scott ?Daelo? Mercer |
GutterSludge posted:
WOW is a gear based grind game, not a skill based MMO.
Agreed, that doesn't mean there is absolutely zero required to successfully complete the raids in the game. By your logic everyone who even walks into a raid would complete it, and yet that doesn't happen. Yes, even with people who are properly geared can fail at a PvE encounter if they haven't the skill to move out of fire. Yes it takes skill to move your toon out of fire, you can argue against that all you want and it won't make you right.
-----signature-----
“A painter paints his pictures on canvas. But musicians paint their pictures on silence.
We provide the music, and you provide the silence.†~Leopold Stokowski
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-Mithan- Title: VNBoard Admin
Posts: 1,287
Registered: 2000-3-1 11:53:15
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
Cataclysm Post Mortem -- Dungeons and Raids with Scott ?Daelo? Mercer |
GutterSludge posted:
-Mithan- posted:
Ugh_Lancelot posted:
Did you really say "when skill actually applied to WoW?" If by skill you mean being passably able to respond to Simon Says minigames, then I agree.
Skill matters. Dodging incoming fire, learning to control your character properly, moving your character around quickly while getting heals off, using the right skills at the right time, etc, etc, etc is SKILL and many people couldn't wrap their minds around it. Maybe you are good, but most people were not and needed to learn the mechanics in order to play better.
Mithan, compared to ..lets say, Asheron's Call, WOW has never required any dextrous skill like you describe here.
Dodging incoming fire? PLEASE. 99.99999% of attacks cannot be dodged by moving your character in WOW. (the other 0.00001% are silly boss mechanics)
Control your character properly? Why would they when the above is in place? It's not like you get a bonus for being uphill of your opponent(just one example) like you did in AC..
Moving and getting heals off? Roll a druid. Cake.
Ugh's description was spot on. Yours is completely ridiculous.
Really?
Have you actually played WoW before or do you just raid Hogger at level 50 for a challenge?
I am just curious because right now you sound like one of those script kiddies on the forums whining about how "WoW sux and (insert new MMO) is so awesome!".
When I say "dodge incoming fire" I mean incoming spell attacks from bosses (lava fires, waves of flame, explosions, etc, etc). You know, "stay out of the sh**" stuff, which is incidentally, why most people die in 5 man Heroic Instances and Raids.
If you had gone further than Hogger, you would know this.
Now is this Battlefield or an old Mario or Megaman game? No, but that isn't the point.
If the game required "no skill", then everybody would be doing all the raids, all the time. Of course, the convenient little counter argument you will now use is "oh but they all suck!". Yes, everybody but you.
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I survived to the end and got nothing out of it, but hey.
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
Cataclysm Post Mortem -- Dungeons and Raids with Scott ?Daelo? Mercer |
The only point that needs to be made to counter your (Mith) and Quasi's statements is this:
Without the GEAR, one CANNOT raid top end content, NO MATTER THE SKILL LEVEL OF THE PLAYER.
The BETTER the GEAR, the LESS skill is actually required (i.e. watching TV while wtfpwning raids..can we call this "negative skill level"?), to the point that it becomes "faceroll".
WOW is a gear based grind game, period.
Attack me personally all you want to Mithan, it will not change the truth.
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Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:" ea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother. |
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
Cataclysm Post Mortem -- Dungeons and Raids with Scott ?Daelo? Mercer |
-Mithan- posted:
When I say "dodge incoming fire" I mean incoming spell attacks from bosses (lava fires, waves of flame, explosions, etc, etc). You know, "stay out of the sh**" stuff, which is incidentally, why most people die in 5 man Heroic Instances and Raids.
No.
When you say this, you mean "follow DBM's blaring instructions on the screen", and you bloody well know it.
Just stop. You cannot win this debate.
-----signature-----
Guttersludge
People just can't handle the truth.
NeMeFieD said:" ea I Ucmed for 12 days straight.."
njwCSUS posted:I'm homosexual, so really, its ongoing sexual attraction to my father, not my mother.
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