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Topic:
Texas police kill 8th-grader carrying pellet gun [Locked] |
Cawlin  Posts: 1,759
Registered: 2005-2-22 07:58:42
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:04am
Subject:
Texas police kill 8th-grader carrying pellet gun |
Sin_of_Onin posted:
Cawlin posted:
So the cops should have just let him be? They should have just backed off and let this kid wander around, maybe go into a classroom and start shooting in there? Can you even picture this scene? I have pictured it happening in my own high school or my girlfriend's son's school, and none of those pictures leads me to believe that not IMMEDIATELY forcing the kid with the gun to drop it was anything other than the correct decision.
So now you may be finally getting it. Their first priority is to secure the area. If there is no way to quickly secure the situation without initiating conflict then so be it. The point is that initiating conflict can put everyone at risk so it has to be considered with thought.
The outcome of this situation was determined before the kid pointed the gun at the cops.
No, it really wasn't determined, and I'm glad you finally admit that you expected the cops to simply come in and shoot this kid period. I knew your position stemmed from irrationality. The outcome of the situation wasn't determined until the kid refused to drop the gun, it's really that simple. Up until that point there were options for the kid. He chose the outcome of the situation.
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If ignorance were painful, half the posters here would be on morphine drips.
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GrilledCheez Title: The Lord's Balls
Posts: 1,060
Registered: 2006-3-22 11:06:32
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:04am
Subject:
Texas police kill 8th-grader carrying pellet gun |
Sin_of_Onin posted:
GrilledCheez posted:
The cops were called to the scene. this is an unfortunate outcome. And a hero cop might have played it differently. But as a rule, I don't think you can make cops not shoot someone who is threatening them with deadly force.
The fact that they are cops doesn't take away their right to defend themselves. It doesn't mean they must shoot, but it certainly means they can.
Why did it get to that point of no return?
Irrelevant to me. I am fine with the state having the power to kill someone who threatens deadly force on a state officer.
I'm sure there are MANY things you could have done to head this situation off. but once he brandished the weapon at school, I don't see how you can avoid calling the cops. And once the cops get there I don't see how they avoid confronting the kid. As a law enforcement situation I am fine with the way things played out. As a child development situation we could probably use a lot of work.
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Another word for expensive is successful.
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Cawlin Posts: 1,759
Registered: 2005-2-22 07:58:42
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:04am
Subject:
Texas police kill 8th-grader carrying pellet gun |
reesescups posted:
I still don't get it.
Answer these simple questions:
Do you believe that the cops were reasonable to assume that their lives or possibly the lives of other students were in danger? Yes or no?
Do you believe that the cops have a duty to protect the other students and the right to protect themselves which supersedes the safety of the person threatening those lives? Yes or no?
Do you believe that the cops would have shot that kid if he'd put the gun down? Yes or no?
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If ignorance were painful, half the posters here would be on morphine drips.
Everyone playing WoW knows everything about playing two classes: 1) their own and 2) Hunters
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Sin_of_Onin Posts: 1,307
Registered: 2005-6-29 08:21:12
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:04am
Subject:
Texas police kill 8th-grader carrying pellet gun |
Cawlin posted:
No, it really wasn't determined, and I'm glad you finally admit that you expected the cops to simply come in and shoot this kid period. I knew your position stemmed from irrationality. The outcome of the situation wasn't determined until the kid refused to drop the gun, it's really that simple. Up until that point there were options for the kid. He chose the outcome of the situation.
WTF are you on? You are too easily confused.
We are talking about the choices of the cops. From their perspective the kid could drop the gun or not. When they force that situation they have to know going in that they are escalating the conflict significantly. Something you don't seem to get. The cops escalated the conflict.
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"Okay... I'm with you fellas" --Delmar
F is for Fake-believe
"We apologise for the inconvenience" --God
"What Jesus fails to appreciate is that it's the meek who are the problem"--Reg
Run, Forrest! Run!
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Cawlin Posts: 1,759
Registered: 2005-2-22 07:58:42
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:04am
Subject:
Texas police kill 8th-grader carrying pellet gun |
Sin_of_Onin posted:
Cawlin posted:
No, it really wasn't determined, and I'm glad you finally admit that you expected the cops to simply come in and shoot this kid period. I knew your position stemmed from irrationality. The outcome of the situation wasn't determined until the kid refused to drop the gun, it's really that simple. Up until that point there were options for the kid. He chose the outcome of the situation.
WTF are you on? You are too easily confused.
We are talking about the choices of the cops. From their perspective the kid could drop the gun or not. When they force that situation they have to know going in that they are escalating the conflict significantly. Something you don't seem to get. The cops escalated the conflict.
The cops had no other choice that did not present a greater risk to the other students and faculty or to their own lives than the choice that they made, period.
ANY other choice represented even more risk to themselves or to other children than the one they took.
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If ignorance were painful, half the posters here would be on morphine drips.
Everyone playing WoW knows everything about playing two classes: 1) their own and 2) Hunters
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Sin_of_Onin Posts: 1,307
Registered: 2005-6-29 08:21:12
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:04am
Subject:
Texas police kill 8th-grader carrying pellet gun |
You don't know that Cawlin and you refuse to even ask the question.
20 minutes from pulling a gun to being shot.
Think about it.
-----signature-----
"Okay... I'm with you fellas" --Delmar
F is for Fake-believe
"We apologise for the inconvenience" --God
"What Jesus fails to appreciate is that it's the meek who are the problem"--Reg
Run, Forrest! Run!
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GrilledCheez Title: The Lord's Balls
Posts: 1,060
Registered: 2006-3-22 11:06:32
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:04am
Subject:
Texas police kill 8th-grader carrying pellet gun |
I don't really understand where you are coming from either SoO.
Cops don't act on perfect facts. Obviously if they knew it was a pellet gun they wouldn't have shot him. If they knew he posed no risk to anyone they might not have confronted him the way they did.
You are asking them to do some kind of quantitative analysis and play the percentages with a bad actor. That is not an intelligent move from any perspective. It maximizes the chance the bad actor will live, and somewhat escalates the danger to everyone else.
Their first responsibility is to protect the citizenry, then themselves, then the bad actor. Everything about this is unfortunate. I am confident that those cops feel awful. but the bottom line is that they did what at the time was probably the thing I would have wanted them to do.
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Another word for expensive is successful.
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Cawlin Posts: 1,759
Registered: 2005-2-22 07:58:42
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:04am
Subject:
Texas police kill 8th-grader carrying pellet gun |
Sin_of_Onin posted:
You don't know that Cawlin and you refuse to even ask the question.
I know that that was a reasonable and correct assessment of the situation in the moment. In retrospect (I.e in irrelevantspec) it didn't turn out that way, and that's a sad thing, the whole thing is sad, but in the moment that assessment was correct.
Maybe you're thinking of some Denzel Washington or Mel Gibson movie where the hero cop walks up to the dangerous guy and with seemingly no regard for his own safety and perfect confidence that the crazy guy will acquiesce, talks him down and disarms him all nice and neat. If so, those are movies, not real life.
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If ignorance were painful, half the posters here would be on morphine drips.
Everyone playing WoW knows everything about playing two classes: 1) their own and 2) Hunters
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reesescups Title: //Captain America
Posts: 2,537
Registered: 2003-5-26 14:45:53
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:04am
Subject:
Texas police kill 8th-grader carrying pellet gun |
Cawlin posted:
Answer these simple questions:
Do you believe that the cops were reasonable to assume that their lives or possibly the lives of other students were in danger? Yes or no?
In plain English for the 100000000000th time - YES.
Cawlin posted:
Do you believe that the cops have a duty to protect the other students and the right to protect themselves which supersedes the safety of the person threatening those lives? Yes or no?
For the 100000000th time - yes
Cawlin posted:
Do you believe that the cops would have shot that kid if he'd put the gun down? Yes or no?
More than likely yes.
None of that has ANYTHING EFFING thing to do with anything I have been trying to discuss...
effing moron.
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Taliesihne Title: Wind on the Deep Waters
Posts: 1,117
Registered: 2004-2-19 04:47:59
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:05am
Subject:
Texas police kill 8th-grader carrying pellet gun |
I'm left to question why they didn't use a non-lethal weapon in response to the incident.
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First comes smiles, then lies. Last is gunfire. -Roland Deschain, of Gilead
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