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Author	Topic: Why did the Union have to be preserved? [Locked]
Yukishiro1 Posts: 3,243 Registered: 2002-9-20 23:52:57	Date Posted: 1/1/00 12:00am Subject: Why did the Union have to be preserved?
	Except for that whole "I wouldn't free the slaves if I didn't have to, and when I do I hope I can get them all to leave." The war was fought over slavery but it wasn't fought for the sake of the slaves.
Sin_of_Onin Posts: 1,307 Registered: 2005-6-29 08:21:12	Date Posted: 1/1/00 12:00am Subject: Why did the Union have to be preserved?
	You have to be horribly ignorant of Lincoln's position to reduce it to that Yuki. But hey cherry picking small bits of information out of context is a great way to have an argument here. It is a fact that Lincoln clearly believed that slavery went against the Decleration. -----signature----- "Okay... I'm with you fellas" --Delmar F is for Fake-believe "We apologise for the inconvenience" --God "What Jesus fails to appreciate is that it's the meek who are the problem"--Reg Run, Forrest! Run!
Yukishiro1 Posts: 3,243 Registered: 2002-9-20 23:52:57	Date Posted: 1/1/00 12:00am Subject: Why did the Union have to be preserved?
	And it's also a fact he said he wouldn't free the slaves unless he had to. And that he hoped he could convince them all to leave America because the races could never mix. I don't think it's me that's cherry-picking. You want to ignore the less savory part's of Lincoln's thoughts and try to claim he was some great human rights activist when he clearly wasn't.
Sin_of_Onin Posts: 1,307 Registered: 2005-6-29 08:21:12	Date Posted: 1/1/00 12:00am Subject: Why did the Union have to be preserved?
	Saying the Declearation applies to blacks was a huge human rights statement for his time. By today's standards he is a racist but the fight of his era was over whether or not the Decleration applied to blacks or not. It was also an economic issue by definition. It is not either a moral issue or an economic one. Basically every argument you made in this thread is based on bad logic. -----signature----- "Okay... I'm with you fellas" --Delmar F is for Fake-believe "We apologise for the inconvenience" --God "What Jesus fails to appreciate is that it's the meek who are the problem"--Reg Run, Forrest! Run!
Ptilk Title: Creepy old pirate Posts: 2,359 Registered: 2002-2-13 14:52:58	Date Posted: 1/1/00 12:00am Subject: Why did the Union have to be preserved?
	Revisionists who try to claim it's the USA fault that the war happened, instead of laying the blame on those who actually created the problem and the war (AKA the traitors who tried to steal the territory of the USA and force everyone in that territory to become their subjects and strip away their US citizenship) is an amazing act of both cherry picking reality for little parts that kinda support your stupidity, and of spitting on the graves of everyone who died to create the country in the first place. No wonder it's such a popular past time for "conservatives". It's pretty much what they always do.
Yukishiro1 Posts: 3,243 Registered: 2002-9-20 23:52:57	Date Posted: 1/1/00 12:00am Subject: Why did the Union have to be preserved?
	Sin_of_Onin posted: Saying the Declearation applies to blacks was a huge human rights statement for his time. If he really thought that he wouldn't have said "I would keep slavery if I could." His concern for blacks clearly had little to do with their suffering and lack of freedom and everything to do with the effect on the (white) Union.
Groucho48 Posts: 821 Registered: 2003-10-22 03:00:14	Date Posted: 1/1/00 12:00am Subject: Why did the Union have to be preserved?
	I've posted this before, but, this is why many of the Union fought... Quote: Our movement may be one of a few days duration and full of pleasureâ€”and it may be one of severe conflict and death to me. Not my will, but thine O God, be done. If it is necessary that I should fall on the battlefield for my country, I am ready. I have no misgivings about, or lack of confidence in, the cause in which I am engaged, and my courage does not halt or falter. I know how strongly American Civilization now leans upon the triumph of the Government, and how great a debt we owe to those who went before us through the blood and suffering of the Revolution. And I am willingâ€”perfectly willingâ€”to lay down all my joys in this life, to help maintain this Government, and to pay that debt. But, my dear wife, when I know that with my own joys I lay down nearly all of yours, and replace them in this life with cares and sorrowsâ€”when, after having eaten for long years the bitter fruit of orphanage myself, I must offer it as their only sustenance to my dear little childrenâ€”is it weak or dishonorable, while the banner of my purpose floats calmly and proudly in the breeze, that my unbounded love for you, my darling wife and children, should struggle in fierce, though useless, contest with my love of country. Sarah, my love for you is deathless, it seems to bind me to you with mighty cables that nothing but Omnipotence could break; and yet my love of Country comes over me like a strong wind and bears me irresistibly on with all these chains to the battlefield. He was killed shortly after that. Southern traitors dug up his body, cut its head off and desecrated it. At the time of the Civil War, the French experiment with a republican democracy had failed, the democratic spring of 1848 had died an ugly death, autocracy was on the rise. For those with hopes of freedom and democracy, the U.S., at that time, was truly the last best hope for mankind. And the southern traitors were willing to destroy that hope because they couldn't spread slavery everywhere they wanted to. -----signature----- â€œScience is like sex: sometimes something useful comes out, but that is not the reason we are doing it.â€ â€“ Richard Feynman
Taliesihne Title: Wind on the Deep Waters Posts: 1,117 Registered: 2004-2-19 04:47:59	Date Posted: 1/1/00 12:00am Subject: Why did the Union have to be preserved?
	No, no, no. no. It was about money. Specifically who would control the lands in the West - the Wealthy Industrial barons of the north or the rich plantation owners in the south. The rest is justification that they used to get the people on board, but make no mistake - it was fought over money. It's also the reason the Union had to be preserved. A metric asston of money depended on it. -----signature----- Jesus saves, Allah protects, and Cthulhu thinks you'd make a nice sandwich First comes smiles, then lies. Last is gunfire. -Roland Deschain, of Gilead

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