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Topic:
Independents Are Not All That Independent [Locked] |
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:01am
Subject:
Independents Are Not All That Independent |
Taliesihne posted:
My problem with Independents has nothing to do with my own ties to one party. It has everything to do with Independents not getting off their asses and starting that third party they are always blathering about. But hey, it's easier to just keep saying 'you guys aren't doing it right' then to actually show us what 'right' looks like.
If that is your take then why aren't you supporting Ron Paul? Him and those that support him are effectively a third party movement.
But before we get all arglebargle on that, do you agree that Americans are a captive audience to a fraudulent two party system that ultimately really only serves a political establishment who themselves really don't care which party is currently in power because the establishment effectively controls both through various means large and small?
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Taliesihne  Title: Wind on the Deep Waters
Posts: 1,117
Registered: 2004-2-19 04:47:59
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:01am
Subject:
Independents Are Not All That Independent |
I'm not an independent, nor have I ever claimed to be one.
I don't support Ron Paul because he's crazy, end of story.
As far as the 'it's too hard' comments from you other two -  . That type of attitude is precisely what I'm mocking.
'It's broken, it's broken. Fix it for me! I shouldn't have to do anything myself' -
-----signature-----
Jesus saves, Allah protects, and Cthulhu thinks you'd make a nice sandwich
First comes smiles, then lies. Last is gunfire. -Roland Deschain, of Gilead
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Moe_Nox Title: In Moe We Trust
Posts: 1,962
Registered: 2007-2-4 12:17:56
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:01am
Subject:
Independents Are Not All That Independent |
Taliesihne posted:
It has everything to do with Independents not getting off their asses and starting that third party they are always blathering about.
I think you have no idea what an independent is.
-----signature-----
The Nanny State cometh
Currency should be bacon cheeseburgers and blow jobs... - Reese
Life at the Outpost: http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1771556
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:01am
Subject:
Independents Are Not All That Independent |
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Dude all you did was pick one of the big parties.
It's not like you did anything amazing, so I don't really see how you can criticize people for pointing out how hard it is to go up against a system literally built around 2 political parties.
That's really a pretty asinine thing to say, and I think it's a sign of some resentment towards people who don't want to adhere to your way of doing things.
Why so much hate Talie?
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Sin_of_Onin Posts: 1,307
Registered: 2005-6-29 08:21:12
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:01am
Subject:
Independents Are Not All That Independent |
One of the hard things for people to accept is that politicians have done a decent job of actually doing what the people have demanded.
Independents are just as much to blame for this as partisans.
-----signature-----
"Okay... I'm with you fellas" --Delmar
F is for Fake-believe
"We apologise for the inconvenience" --God
"What Jesus fails to appreciate is that it's the meek who are the problem"--Reg
Run, Forrest! Run!
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Szerek  Posts: 338
Registered: 2000-8-8 09:26:09
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:01am
Subject:
Independents Are Not All That Independent |
Taliesihne posted:
I'm not an independent, nor have I ever claimed to be one.
I don't support Ron Paul because he's crazy, end of story.
As far as the 'it's too hard' comments from you other two - . That type of attitude is precisely what I'm mocking.
'It's broken, it's broken. Fix it for me! I shouldn't have to do anything myself' -
Quote posted:
Major parties are so anxious to exclude third parties from the ballot that sitting legislators have even engaged in illegal conduct. One former legislator and several Democratic staffers were convicted last year of having Pennsylvania governmental employees do political work on taxpayer time in what became known as Bonusgate. A "veritable army" of state employees was used to work on signature challenges to Green Party candidate Ralph Nader. An even greater effort was used to exclude Carl Romanelli who had filed almost 199,000 signatures. A Delaware County ward leader recently plead guilty to falsifying petition signatures in 2010.
A 2008 grand jury report on campaign abuse noted how burdensome the signature gathering process is. Legal challenges often result in the exclusion of valid signatures because the current rules are so abstruse. Judges overwhelmed by the requirement of reviewing tens of thousands of signatures have tended to side with major parties merely to get such cases off their dockets.
If Ralph Nader couldn't get on the ballot in PA, then no other smaller candidate will EVER get on the ballot on PA. Tell me Kreskin, what Jedi mind trick to I need to employ to get on a ballot that the Green Party can't get on?
-----signature-----
"The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it."
"The IQ and the life expectancy of the average American recently passed each other in opposite directions."
- George Carlin
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Taliesihne Title: Wind on the Deep Waters
Posts: 1,117
Registered: 2004-2-19 04:47:59
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:01am
Subject:
Independents Are Not All That Independent |
I believe in working from within the system to address the wrongs.
I believe in participating in causes I believe in.
I don't believe in cherry picking from the sidelines and constantly complaining about all the things I am unwilling to even attempt to fix on my own.
Democracy is a participatory sport - that means more then just voting.
If more of you chuckleheads would DO something instead of just complaining, things would get better.
That means taking a risk and investing in a group that might fail. Or getting down off your high horse and participating with the rest of us partisan hacks.
-----signature-----
Jesus saves, Allah protects, and Cthulhu thinks you'd make a nice sandwich
First comes smiles, then lies. Last is gunfire. -Roland Deschain, of Gilead
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:01am
Subject:
Independents Are Not All That Independent |
Sin_of_Onin posted:
One of the hard things for people to accept is that politicians have done a decent job of actually doing what the people have demanded.
Independents are just as much to blame for this as partisans.
Maybe of doing what they voted for, but not demanded.
We have 2 real choices on election day. We can vote for one of the parties that may win, or we can vote for one of the other parties that will definitely lose.
The American system was revolutionary when it came about, but now it's old and busted. We have to make some big changes our we will continue to only be able to choose some of the things we want with a bunch of things we don't want.
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Sin_of_Onin Posts: 1,307
Registered: 2005-6-29 08:21:12
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:01am
Subject:
Independents Are Not All That Independent |
Allstarslacker posted:
Sin_of_Onin posted:
One of the hard things for people to accept is that politicians have done a decent job of actually doing what the people have demanded.
Independents are just as much to blame for this as partisans.
Maybe of doing what they voted for, but not demanded.
We have 2 real choices on election day. We can vote for one of the parties that may win, or we can vote for one of the other parties that will definitely lose.
The American system was revolutionary when it came about, but now it's old and busted. We have to make some big changes our we will continue to only be able to choose some of the things we want with a bunch of things we don't want.
It is hard to accept but it is reality. The American people generally demand stupid crap and then when they get it they complain.
Hard choices are not popular. Stupid choices often are.
-----signature-----
"Okay... I'm with you fellas" --Delmar
F is for Fake-believe
"We apologise for the inconvenience" --God
"What Jesus fails to appreciate is that it's the meek who are the problem"--Reg
Run, Forrest! Run!
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:01am
Subject:
Independents Are Not All That Independent |
Allstarslacker posted:
Modeeb has identified the symptom, but I don't think he's right about the problem.
The reason there are so many independents isn't because they can't decide. They know what they want they just don't see it.
Do you think they should just settle for the choices they have and pick a side? Are there other aspects of life you would give this advice for?
Our system doesn't present enough choices.
If there were more than 2 major parties there would be a lot less independents.
On top of not being able to see it.. they don't know how to get it. The whole problem with indepedents is they're waiting for someone to deliver what they want to them. Partisans are invested in what they believe is the best vehicle to achieve what they want.
-----signature-----
The People's Intern
"If I had a plan to kill liberals the liberals would not know about it. Until it is too late of course. I have no such plan, sleep well, sleep deeply." -Fisted
LOTRO: Windfola - Telpehta
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