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Topic:
People who pray must think god sucks... [Locked] |
Yukishiro1  Posts: 3,243
Registered: 2002-9-20 23:52:57
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:03am
Subject:
People who pray must think god sucks... |
_Enkidu_ posted:
We've already been through this, yuki. You and onin clearly stated that your beliefs come from intuition and epistemology makes it pretty clear that's the wrong way to go. So what's there left to talk about? How you guys don't understand philosophy? How is that going to be any fun?
So basically you can't describe to me any experiment that would allow you to come to conclusions about what "good" is by any objectively verifiable method. When confronted with that basic fact you resort to appeals to authority and other logical fallacies.
Glad we cleared that up. You are a dogmatic religious thinker who doesn't realize he's a dogmatic religious thinker.
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Yukishiro1 Posts: 3,243
Registered: 2002-9-20 23:52:57
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:03am
Subject:
People who pray must think god sucks... |
Rosaria posted:
The four heavenly kings are essentially north, south, east, and west. The names of the kings are used to refer to the person who has the teachings and spirit of that king flowing in him. If you were to adhere to the virtues represented by one of the kings you would be referred to with his name. There is some mythology around their children but I am really unsure where that plays into Buddhism at this time. The number 4 is repeated throughout the centuries, four kings, four elements, four continents of meaning, etc. some of which have been discarded in the face of scientific evidence to the contrary.
People who considered themselves buddhists have been praying to the 4 heavenly kings and various manifestations of the buddha for thousands of years. You can try to say they arn't buddhists but I'm not sure how effective that is.
There's always been a tension in buddhism between the pure, philosophical version practiced by a select few and the layman's version which is basically similar to most other religions in that it has a pantheon people pray to for various benefits.
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Rosaria  Title: They call me Mellow Yellow, quite rightly.
Posts: 477
Registered: 2003-8-22 10:07:30
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:03am
Subject:
People who pray must think god sucks... |
Yukishiro1 posted:
_Enkidu_ posted:
We've already been through this, yuki. You and onin clearly stated that your beliefs come from intuition and epistemology makes it pretty clear that's the wrong way to go. So what's there left to talk about? How you guys don't understand philosophy? How is that going to be any fun?
So basically you can't describe to me any experiment that would allow you to come to conclusions about what "good" is by any objectively verifiable method. When confronted with that basic fact you resort to appeals to authority and other logical fallacies.
Glad we cleared that up. You are a dogmatic religious thinker who doesn't realize he's a dogmatic religious thinker.
I still can't believe anyone would say Yuki derives his beliefs from intuition. WTF 
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Moe_Nox Title: In Moe We Trust
Posts: 1,962
Registered: 2007-2-4 12:17:56
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:03am
Subject:
People who pray must think god sucks... |
Rosaria posted:
I still can't believe anyone would say Yuki derives his beliefs from intuition. WTF
Enkidu is just trying to paint everyone to fit his beliefs, as any fanatical fundie does.
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Rosaria Title: They call me Mellow Yellow, quite rightly.
Posts: 477
Registered: 2003-8-22 10:07:30
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:03am
Subject:
People who pray must think god sucks... |
Yukishiro1 posted:
Rosaria posted:
The four heavenly kings are essentially north, south, east, and west. The names of the kings are used to refer to the person who has the teachings and spirit of that king flowing in him. If you were to adhere to the virtues represented by one of the kings you would be referred to with his name. There is some mythology around their children but I am really unsure where that plays into Buddhism at this time. The number 4 is repeated throughout the centuries, four kings, four elements, four continents of meaning, etc. some of which have been discarded in the face of scientific evidence to the contrary.
People who considered themselves buddhists have been praying to the 4 heavenly kings and various manifestations of the buddha for thousands of years. You can try to say they arn't buddhists but I'm not sure how effective that is.
There's always been a tension in buddhism between the pure, philosophical version practiced by a select few and the layman's version which is basically similar to most other religions in that it has a pantheon people pray to for various benefits.
I'm not calling them one thing or another. What I did say is people who pray to Buddha clearly have not read any of his writings or wish to ignore them, and that is true. There is a difference between praying to or trying to emulate or demonstrate the virtues of although these might be the same things in other religions.
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"Them Bollinger Bands on the DJIA are starting to look like columns of projectile vomit." ~ Red Pill
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Z-Elder  Posts: 671
Registered: 2002-3-15 13:58:39
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:03am
Subject:
People who pray must think god sucks... |
Yukishiro1 posted:
Every time we have one of these conversations my opinion of Enkidu's intelligence goes down considerably.
LOL I was thinking that while reading this thread. Years ago he seemed at least sane. He drank some Kool Aid on the way.
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"Men are not in hell because God is angry with them . . .
they stand in the state of division and separation which by their own motion, they have made for themselves"
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_Enkidu_ Title: Zen Badger
Posts: 280
Registered: 2001-12-24 05:02:15
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:03am
Subject:
People who pray must think god sucks... |
Here, I'll play with you some more yuki, because you might learn something. When you want to talk about good, do you mean good v. bad or good v. evil. If you knew anything about philosophy, you'd know this is an important distinction and you should have made it in your orginal proposition. The differences between the two positions created two entirely different lines of reason a couple hundred years ago that still have yet to be resolved. So which is it?
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Yukishiro1 Posts: 3,243
Registered: 2002-9-20 23:52:57
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:03am
Subject:
People who pray must think god sucks... |
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Well I don't know that I really disagree with that. Don't we all? "I think, therefore I am" is an intuitive statement. You can quibble about "think" vs "feel" but it's all the same thing.
But I agree that when taken to that level of abstraction it isn't really a pejorative statement and it applies to everyone so I don't see there's much point in making it.
Science relies on a variety of inherently unverifiable assumptions. The most basic being that the scientist isn't crazy and hallucinating. Because there is certainly no way to design a control experiment to verify you are really you and someone else is really someone else and not a figment of your imagination.
One doesn't have to make an assumption about what "good" is to conduct scientific inquiry but one does have to make the assumption to do anything useful with it. One can use science to understand ways to minimize the spread of infectious diseases but science can't prove that minimizing the spread of infectious diseases is a good thing in the abstract.
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Rosaria Title: They call me Mellow Yellow, quite rightly.
Posts: 477
Registered: 2003-8-22 10:07:30
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:03am
Subject:
People who pray must think god sucks... |
Moe_Nox posted:
Rosaria posted:
I still can't believe anyone would say Yuki derives his beliefs from intuition. WTF
Enkidu is just trying to paint everyone to fit his beliefs, as any fanatical fundie does.
I don't know if Yuki has a religion or even practices one. Is Enkidu lumping Yuki in with religious 'fanatics' as he calls them? If so, he's fucking bonkers.
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"Them Bollinger Bands on the DJIA are starting to look like columns of projectile vomit." ~ Red Pill
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Yukishiro1 Posts: 3,243
Registered: 2002-9-20 23:52:57
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:04am
Subject:
People who pray must think god sucks... |
_Enkidu_ posted:
Here, I'll play with you some more yuki, because you might learn something. When you want to talk about good, do you mean good v. bad or good v. evil. If you knew anything about philosophy, you'd know this is an important distinction and you should have made it in your orginal proposition. The differences between the two positions created two entirely different lines of reason a couple hundred years ago that still have yet to be resolved. So which is it?
Either one. It doesn't matter. Just show me an objectively verifiable way to determine what "good" is.
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